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Folks in the status professions (banking, law,..) often tell me they want to become an entrepreneur. I always tell them, you wont do it. They attended the right

Folks in the status professions (banking, law,..) often tell me they want to become an entrepreneur. I always tell them, you wont do it. They attended the right school, joined the right firm, attained that corner office. As a founder they would give up all that, and their family and friends will tell them that they've made a massive mistake, for years, while it appears that nothing is happening. Then they sheepishly admit that this is true. As a bootstrapped founder when I was younger, even dating was awkward. People considered me to be quasi-unemployed, despite working 80 hours a week. It's really hard to do if you're thirsty for status.

ianai 6y ago
No no no, tell them they CAN be an entrepreneur by just giving you $MONEY for $IDEA with $LAX legal terms. Edit-But more seriously - I totally agree. It is infinitely more difficult to accept a low position for that long to the point of impossibility for many already otherwise established.
ackbar03 6y ago
Yes I can totally agree with this, and it can be amplified by your environment, especially in HK where we're pretty much all slaves to our mortgages. I worked in ib and actually quit after I was relocated to Shanghai. My colleagues were a lot more understanding because you could actually feel the pace of technological change a lot more acutely than in a place like Hong Kong. But still most of them would never have the guts to do it themselves, they lose too much for a totally uncertain future and probably wouldn't make it anyways. And yea I also lived like a bum for a few years after that but I never really cared as much for fine food or whatever it is stuffy banker types lived for anyways
bumby 6y ago
This reminds me of the book "Excellent Sheep" that spoke to the point that much of elite schools is about chasing status. I couldn't find the exact number, but an absurd percentage of graduates go into a select few high prestige career choices, namely finance, consulting, law, and medicine. The point being students are optimizing for high status. To paraphrase an interaction from the book about entertaining different paths, when pressed a student made it clear: "We've known who we want to be from elementary school. We are the type to get into <<Ivy League School Name>>". I sometimes wonder if people focus on chasing status when they're at a loss for defining any other concrete goal. When you aren't sure what you want, it's easy to let society define your goal which manifests itself as chasing status.
- duxup 6y ago
  Anecdotally when I was in college I remember doing a lot of observing of all the kid in various programs. I distinctly remember thinking all my pre-law friends and acquaintances seemed to be really looking for something... at the time I thought they were looking for "who they are", but status actually makes a lot more sense, even if it is a bit of "who they are" as well. That's not a judgment about them good or bad, just something that seemed to stick out to me about many of them.
- clairity 6y ago
  > “...the point that much of elite schools is about chasing status.” it’s important to note that everyone is chasing status, and that status is (highly) multidimensional, so we can all have it along different dimensions. i’d go so far as to posit that status has more degrees of freedom than the number of people. it isn’t zero-sum by any means. “high-status schools” is just one of those dimensions, perhaps one that’s more visible than others.
  - bumby 6y ago
    >it’s important to note that everyone is chasing status While I do think that is the general rule since humans are social animals, I'm curious as to why you don't think there are exceptions. By definition, to chase status means to pursue things that society values. It seems to me there are certain people who do not chase such things because they have value systems that don't align with the society they are a part of. Perhaps I can agree if we lax the assumption on what defines a society. If your family or a church is sufficient as a "society" I could agree, but I was using a larger definition to include people one wouldn't know on a personal level. >status has more degrees of freedom than the number of people. I don't know if I'd go this far. Status is by definition relative social standing and thus defined by the society at large. It can be relative between cultures (some societies may give teachers more status than lawyers and vice versa) but it can't really be relative within a culture and still meet that definition of aggregate consensus. Naturally, within cultures some dimensions will be more valued than others as the ones that give prestige.
    - 6y ago
nlh 6y ago
> People considered me to be quasi-unemployed On a related note, this is a mindset that I think is probably the biggest blocker to entrepreneurial success (and perhaps happiness?) I have a friend (you know who you are since you’ll probably read this ;) who is by ALL measures a massively successful and brilliant person. Ran his own startup for 10+ years, just had a great exit. And during his post-sale victory lap in which he took a much-needed burnout recovery break, STILL began to refer to himself as “unemployed” in the context of worry over what to do next. “Employed” / “Unemployed” is a mindset that’s been engrained into people for hundreds of years, so I can’t blame others for applying it to entrepreneurs. But I think it’s a limiting frame of reference and holds a lot of people back.
- K0balt 6y ago
  I prefer "gainfully unemployed" or "willfully unemployable". Those are the labels I have become comfortable with.
  - mgolawala 6y ago
    I had a friend once refer to it as “funemployed”. I loved the term, though I still prefer to refer to intentional and willful breaks from employment as sabbaticals.
    - zentiggr 6y ago
      Interesting that your alternative to the socially acceptable work status, is a socially acceptable non-work status that still implies you're doing something. It's that underlying implication that you must always be striving for something, even meditation is in service to being a better self, vacations aren't fun, they're recharging the batteries / destressing, all of the implied 'be working toward something or you're worthless' assumptions that just frustrate me even more.
    - ska 6y ago
      Sabbatical implies you are working on something else though, so seems to me quite different than "funemployed".
andi999 6y ago
By reasonable measures of success they are succesful, arent they?
nsxwolf 6y ago
I mean, as a lowly software engineer that just makes a decent income, I won't do it either, for the same reasons.
- rektide 6y ago
  Sure would be nice to be able to pay for passable housing & health care while I'm trying to create. The burn rate is too damned high. #vanlife is a nice escape fantasy, for this ultra-hostile expensive world we live in.
phkahler 6y ago
>> Then they sheepishly admit that this is true. So even some of the most successful high statis people are caving in to outside pressure to be something other than what they want. Problem is, the benefits of that (money, status, maybe power) are nice thing to have even if they're not your goal.
- chasd00 6y ago
  this is where the term "golden handcuffs" comes from. You want to do something else but the current situation is too good to risk.
fossuser 6y ago
Arguably a lot of people are driven to be entrepreneurs because of the status. The issue with the bankers is that they’re trapped in a local maximum. A successful entrepreneur is probably the highest status role possible in modern society (think Zuckerberg, Bezos, Gates) maybe even rivaling POTUS. I don’t buy that entrepreneurs are not interested in status, they’re just making a longer term status play (and taking on more financial risk to do so). Look at “30 under 30” lists, accounts on Twitter and their bios, there’s massive amounts of status seeking there. I suspect the successful low status people are actually the standard devs/IT employees, not founders. An annoying part of this game is that it’s also high status to pretend you’re low status or that you don’t care about status (hence all the “I’m humbled to accept <high status achievement>”) Dating is always awkward, doesn’t really matter what you’re doing (except maybe doctor).
- User23 6y ago
  > A successful entrepreneur is probably the highest status role possible in modern society (think Zuckerberg, Bezos, Gates) maybe even rivaling POTUS. Not even close. Regardless of the high esteem we may hold them in, the average person just sees them that you list as rich dorks. Compare and contrast with say Brad Pitt or Leonardo DiCaprio who, to use a stock phrase, men want to be and women want to be with.
  - fossuser 6y ago
    Yeah that’s a good point, I wasn’t thinking of more classic celebrities like actors, musicians, and famous athletes.
  - francisofascii 6y ago
    Status depends on the social hierarchy. In the modern world, we are fortunate to exist in more than one social hierarchy, and can potentially choose which to be in. You have your workplace, family, local gym, neighborhood, online community, etc., and can have different statuses in each.
  - mywittyname 6y ago
    Being a business person is the ultimate status symbol in the USA. Look at our current president: he was elected because of his perceived "business prowess." Had he been considered merely a reality TV host, he would not have been elected. If you think about it, it's odd that we even know the names of business leaders. But, I bet the typical American could name F500 CEOs than they could famous painters.
wombatmobile 6y ago
> Folks in the status professions (banking, law,..) often tell me they want to become an entrepreneur. They mean a rich, powerful, famous entrepreneur, not an intrepid voyager living by their wit and instincts to do something that changes the world. What you tell them is spot on.
- mcguire 6y ago
  So most entrepreneurs want to spend their lives living out of their car? Rich, powerful, and famous is probably the end goal for most entrepreneurs.
derekam 6y ago
>People considered me to be quasi-unemployed, despite working 80 hours a week. This hits hard. Whenever I think I want to do something, I try to seriously think about whether it’s something I want to do, or something I want to have done. Working on side projects and companies is something I enjoy actually doing, while for a lot of the status-seeking types it’s usually something they want to have done and finished successfully. Similarly I sometimes think I want to write a book, but I really just want to have written a book, which is a very different thing.
- BossingAround 6y ago
  Interesting. I do all side projects because I want to have done them. I don't really enjoy doing them, but they bring benefit to someone, and that might be worth my time. I'm thinking of writing a book for the same reason; I know I'll be miserable writing it, but having done that, it'll look great on my CV, and might bring me some benefits. For me, most of the worth to be doing category is stuff I don't enjoy, yet I do it anyways for the long-term gain.
  - tarsinge 6y ago
    That’s fine as long as you have balance and remember to do other things for fun too and not live all your life doing projects like that, because ultimately at the longer term there is nothing and you may have huge regrets of not having truly lived.
lhorie 6y ago
Does entrepreneurship have to be a 80 hour week full time all-or-nothing commitment? What of those passive income advocates that talk about slowly building revenue streams on the side?
- carlmr 6y ago
  I think that's a different goal, they want to be quasi unemployed with money, surfing at the beach in Bali.
  - BossingAround 6y ago
    I'd love to have a passive income so that I can worry less about my expenses while having a regular 9-5 job that I already have. Sounds like a stereotype to me; many people would love to have passive income for many different reasons I'm sure.
justin66 6y ago
> Folks in the status professions (banking, law,..) often tell me they want to become an entrepreneur. I always tell them, you wont do it. They attended the right school, joined the right firm, attained that corner office. As a founder they would give up all that, and their family and friends will tell them that they've made a massive mistake, for years, while it appears that nothing is happening. > Then they sheepishly admit that this is true. That might be less about agreement and more about politely getting the guy who's being deliberately discouraging to shut up.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  There's a time and a place for it, but I feel like much stronger friendships are formed by people who can handle giving and receiving a bit of negativity / harsh reality now and then. The superficiality of modern positivity obsession is a source of a lot of problems, because people don't have a tight-knit network who will be there for each other through thick and thin.
  - justin66 6y ago
    The phrase I always tell them, you wont do it specifically doesn't strike me as the words of the helpful, skeptical voice of reason, but perhaps I'm reading too much into a careless phrasing. It sounds to me like the words of a superior know-it-all douchebag, not the hard-nosed, skeptical advice of a worthwhile friend. YMMV.
jancsika 6y ago
> As a bootstrapped founder when I was younger, even dating was awkward. People considered me to be quasi-unemployed, despite working 80 hours a week. It is awkward-- and frankly, unhealthy-- to be working 80 hours a week. That's what people in cults do.
klmadfejno 6y ago
I'm in a relatively high status career, followed that just right path, and more or less planned it all out since middle school. For what its worth, I don't give a crap about status. I think most of my peers don't either, at least relative to the past. I think materialism and arbitrary status seeking is one the decline for the young professional. High end professional fashion and fancy watches are nowhere to be seen in my office (well, pre-covid at least). Sure, there's social media doing its thing, but in the grand scheme of things it's importance to the average person's self image is small. I do care about access to high paying wages with work that gradually grows more high level over time. I do think working at a startup could be more fun, but I don't think it'd be a good idea worth doing, ever, given what I've got now. I am happy with what I've got. I make a chunk less than $200k, which isn't close to the very top tiers, but it's way more than I need. Yeah, probably could have gotten even more going a CS FANG route or a lucrative start up that just works. But personally I think everything more or less went as planned and I think that's great. I wouldn't go assuming that folks in similar positions aren't aware of the calculus here either. If someone says running a startup sounds really interesting, that's because there's a lot of cool stuff in it. The same could be said of being a commercial fisherman, or being a detective, or running a small restaurant. I mean running a small restaurant sounds awesome. But it also probably sucks. If someone asks me about it, I'm likely to focus on the positives. I'm not exactly being asked to sign my name on a career form here. If you decide to call me out on not actually wanting to drop my lucrative career for that startup/restaurant/fish boat, that's not me being sheepish, that's me trying to downplay an uncomfortable situation coupled with an apparent assumption that I'm unaware of my own vanity for status :/
- bumby 6y ago
  >High end professional fashion and fancy watches are nowhere to be seen in my office Do you think the status drive is the same, just replaced with different signals? I've often wondered if a lot of it is almost generationally defined. Boomers grew up in a time where cars were a major status symbol, but there's a high percentage of younger generations that don't even care to own a car. Based on what you stated, I wonder if the materialism has just been replaced by an experiential sense of status (e.g., who has the best Instagram-worthy vacation to share, or who has the coolest start-up story to tell, or the most 'artisan' career). I'm not claiming to know, just curious if these are just different means to the same end defined as the esteem of our collegues
gamblor956 6y ago
That's ironic because most of the tech founders I meet these days do it for the status, and just pretend to be entrepreneurs.
- mcguire 6y ago
  Q: What do you call the founder and CEO of a 1-2 person company that failed and went bankrupt? A: Founder and CEO.
  - gamblor956 6y ago
    Most people would call them unemployed. Calling oneself Founder and CEO doesn't have much, if any, cachet outside of the tech world, since on its own it doesn't mean anything. What matters is what you actually did at the failed company. You know what a plumber in charge of a plumbing company calls himself? A plumber.
    - foobiekr 6y ago
      A few years ago I was asked to present at an alumni event. Afterwards I met with groups of students. It had been a very long day, and after the sixth or seventh group of students that met with me completed their "I'm the CEO, this is the CTO, this is the CMO, this is the COO... on, and this is our engineer" speech I looked at the CEO and accidentally snapped "Well, I guess you've learned an important lesson about how meaningless these titles are." So I agree with you - the pretentious titles hold very little cachet, and not just outside the tech world, but inside it as well. No one is actually impressed at the zero-experience CEO of his own company until he proves something even in tech.
mcguire 6y ago
"As a bootstrapped founder when I was younger..." How long were you willing to work for someone else before you became a founder? Status takes many forms.
tru3_power 6y ago
How did you survive initially without a steady source of income?

ianai 6y ago

No no no, tell them they CAN be an entrepreneur by just giving you $MONEY for $IDEA with $LAX legal terms. Edit-But more seriously - I totally agree. It is infinitely more difficult to accept a low position for that long to the point of impossibility for many already otherwise established.

ackbar03 6y ago

Yes I can totally agree with this, and it can be amplified by your environment, especially in HK where we're pretty much all slaves to our mortgages. I worked in ib and actually quit after I was relocated to Shanghai. My colleagues were a lot more understanding because you could actually feel the pace of technological change a lot more acutely than in a place like Hong Kong. But still most of them would never have the guts to do it themselves, they lose too much for a totally uncertain future and probably wouldn't make it anyways. And yea I also lived like a bum for a few years after that but I never really cared as much for fine food or whatever it is stuffy banker types lived for anyways

bumby 6y ago

This reminds me of the book "Excellent Sheep" that spoke to the point that much of elite schools is about chasing status. I couldn't find the exact number, but an absurd percentage of graduates go into a select few high prestige career choices, namely finance, consulting, law, and medicine. The point being students are optimizing for high status. To paraphrase an interaction from the book about entertaining different paths, when pressed a student made it clear: "We've known who we want to be from elementary school. We are the type to get into <<Ivy League School Name>>". I sometimes wonder if people focus on chasing status when they're at a loss for defining any other concrete goal. When you aren't sure what you want, it's easy to let society define your goal which manifests itself as chasing status.

duxup 6y ago
Anecdotally when I was in college I remember doing a lot of observing of all the kid in various programs. I distinctly remember thinking all my pre-law friends and acquaintances seemed to be really looking for something... at the time I thought they were looking for "who they are", but status actually makes a lot more sense, even if it is a bit of "who they are" as well. That's not a judgment about them good or bad, just something that seemed to stick out to me about many of them.
clairity 6y ago
> “...the point that much of elite schools is about chasing status.” it’s important to note that everyone is chasing status, and that status is (highly) multidimensional, so we can all have it along different dimensions. i’d go so far as to posit that status has more degrees of freedom than the number of people. it isn’t zero-sum by any means. “high-status schools” is just one of those dimensions, perhaps one that’s more visible than others.
- bumby 6y ago
  >it’s important to note that everyone is chasing status While I do think that is the general rule since humans are social animals, I'm curious as to why you don't think there are exceptions. By definition, to chase status means to pursue things that society values. It seems to me there are certain people who do not chase such things because they have value systems that don't align with the society they are a part of. Perhaps I can agree if we lax the assumption on what defines a society. If your family or a church is sufficient as a "society" I could agree, but I was using a larger definition to include people one wouldn't know on a personal level. >status has more degrees of freedom than the number of people. I don't know if I'd go this far. Status is by definition relative social standing and thus defined by the society at large. It can be relative between cultures (some societies may give teachers more status than lawyers and vice versa) but it can't really be relative within a culture and still meet that definition of aggregate consensus. Naturally, within cultures some dimensions will be more valued than others as the ones that give prestige.
  - 6y ago

nlh 6y ago

> People considered me to be quasi-unemployed On a related note, this is a mindset that I think is probably the biggest blocker to entrepreneurial success (and perhaps happiness?) I have a friend (you know who you are since you’ll probably read this ;) who is by ALL measures a massively successful and brilliant person. Ran his own startup for 10+ years, just had a great exit. And during his post-sale victory lap in which he took a much-needed burnout recovery break, STILL began to refer to himself as “unemployed” in the context of worry over what to do next. “Employed” / “Unemployed” is a mindset that’s been engrained into people for hundreds of years, so I can’t blame others for applying it to entrepreneurs. But I think it’s a limiting frame of reference and holds a lot of people back.

K0balt 6y ago
I prefer "gainfully unemployed" or "willfully unemployable". Those are the labels I have become comfortable with.
- mgolawala 6y ago
  I had a friend once refer to it as “funemployed”. I loved the term, though I still prefer to refer to intentional and willful breaks from employment as sabbaticals.
  - zentiggr 6y ago
    Interesting that your alternative to the socially acceptable work status, is a socially acceptable non-work status that still implies you're doing something. It's that underlying implication that you must always be striving for something, even meditation is in service to being a better self, vacations aren't fun, they're recharging the batteries / destressing, all of the implied 'be working toward something or you're worthless' assumptions that just frustrate me even more.
  - ska 6y ago
    Sabbatical implies you are working on something else though, so seems to me quite different than "funemployed".

andi999 6y ago

By reasonable measures of success they are succesful, arent they?

nsxwolf 6y ago

I mean, as a lowly software engineer that just makes a decent income, I won't do it either, for the same reasons.

rektide 6y ago
Sure would be nice to be able to pay for passable housing & health care while I'm trying to create. The burn rate is too damned high. #vanlife is a nice escape fantasy, for this ultra-hostile expensive world we live in.

phkahler 6y ago

>> Then they sheepishly admit that this is true. So even some of the most successful high statis people are caving in to outside pressure to be something other than what they want. Problem is, the benefits of that (money, status, maybe power) are nice thing to have even if they're not your goal.

chasd00 6y ago
this is where the term "golden handcuffs" comes from. You want to do something else but the current situation is too good to risk.

fossuser 6y ago

Arguably a lot of people are driven to be entrepreneurs because of the status. The issue with the bankers is that they’re trapped in a local maximum. A successful entrepreneur is probably the highest status role possible in modern society (think Zuckerberg, Bezos, Gates) maybe even rivaling POTUS. I don’t buy that entrepreneurs are not interested in status, they’re just making a longer term status play (and taking on more financial risk to do so). Look at “30 under 30” lists, accounts on Twitter and their bios, there’s massive amounts of status seeking there. I suspect the successful low status people are actually the standard devs/IT employees, not founders. An annoying part of this game is that it’s also high status to pretend you’re low status or that you don’t care about status (hence all the “I’m humbled to accept <high status achievement>”) Dating is always awkward, doesn’t really matter what you’re doing (except maybe doctor).

User23 6y ago
> A successful entrepreneur is probably the highest status role possible in modern society (think Zuckerberg, Bezos, Gates) maybe even rivaling POTUS. Not even close. Regardless of the high esteem we may hold them in, the average person just sees them that you list as rich dorks. Compare and contrast with say Brad Pitt or Leonardo DiCaprio who, to use a stock phrase, men want to be and women want to be with.
- fossuser 6y ago
  Yeah that’s a good point, I wasn’t thinking of more classic celebrities like actors, musicians, and famous athletes.
- francisofascii 6y ago
  Status depends on the social hierarchy. In the modern world, we are fortunate to exist in more than one social hierarchy, and can potentially choose which to be in. You have your workplace, family, local gym, neighborhood, online community, etc., and can have different statuses in each.
- mywittyname 6y ago
  Being a business person is the ultimate status symbol in the USA. Look at our current president: he was elected because of his perceived "business prowess." Had he been considered merely a reality TV host, he would not have been elected. If you think about it, it's odd that we even know the names of business leaders. But, I bet the typical American could name F500 CEOs than they could famous painters.

wombatmobile 6y ago

> Folks in the status professions (banking, law,..) often tell me they want to become an entrepreneur. They mean a rich, powerful, famous entrepreneur, not an intrepid voyager living by their wit and instincts to do something that changes the world. What you tell them is spot on.

mcguire 6y ago
So most entrepreneurs want to spend their lives living out of their car? Rich, powerful, and famous is probably the end goal for most entrepreneurs.

derekam 6y ago

>People considered me to be quasi-unemployed, despite working 80 hours a week. This hits hard. Whenever I think I want to do something, I try to seriously think about whether it’s something I want to do, or something I want to have done. Working on side projects and companies is something I enjoy actually doing, while for a lot of the status-seeking types it’s usually something they want to have done and finished successfully. Similarly I sometimes think I want to write a book, but I really just want to have written a book, which is a very different thing.

BossingAround 6y ago
Interesting. I do all side projects because I want to have done them. I don't really enjoy doing them, but they bring benefit to someone, and that might be worth my time. I'm thinking of writing a book for the same reason; I know I'll be miserable writing it, but having done that, it'll look great on my CV, and might bring me some benefits. For me, most of the worth to be doing category is stuff I don't enjoy, yet I do it anyways for the long-term gain.
- tarsinge 6y ago
  That’s fine as long as you have balance and remember to do other things for fun too and not live all your life doing projects like that, because ultimately at the longer term there is nothing and you may have huge regrets of not having truly lived.

lhorie 6y ago

Does entrepreneurship have to be a 80 hour week full time all-or-nothing commitment? What of those passive income advocates that talk about slowly building revenue streams on the side?

carlmr 6y ago
I think that's a different goal, they want to be quasi unemployed with money, surfing at the beach in Bali.
- BossingAround 6y ago
  I'd love to have a passive income so that I can worry less about my expenses while having a regular 9-5 job that I already have. Sounds like a stereotype to me; many people would love to have passive income for many different reasons I'm sure.

justin66 6y ago

> Folks in the status professions (banking, law,..) often tell me they want to become an entrepreneur. I always tell them, you wont do it. They attended the right school, joined the right firm, attained that corner office. As a founder they would give up all that, and their family and friends will tell them that they've made a massive mistake, for years, while it appears that nothing is happening. > Then they sheepishly admit that this is true. That might be less about agreement and more about politely getting the guy who's being deliberately discouraging to shut up.

nitrogen 6y ago
There's a time and a place for it, but I feel like much stronger friendships are formed by people who can handle giving and receiving a bit of negativity / harsh reality now and then. The superficiality of modern positivity obsession is a source of a lot of problems, because people don't have a tight-knit network who will be there for each other through thick and thin.
- justin66 6y ago
  The phrase I always tell them, you wont do it specifically doesn't strike me as the words of the helpful, skeptical voice of reason, but perhaps I'm reading too much into a careless phrasing. It sounds to me like the words of a superior know-it-all douchebag, not the hard-nosed, skeptical advice of a worthwhile friend. YMMV.

jancsika 6y ago

> As a bootstrapped founder when I was younger, even dating was awkward. People considered me to be quasi-unemployed, despite working 80 hours a week. It is awkward-- and frankly, unhealthy-- to be working 80 hours a week. That's what people in cults do.

klmadfejno 6y ago

I'm in a relatively high status career, followed that just right path, and more or less planned it all out since middle school. For what its worth, I don't give a crap about status. I think most of my peers don't either, at least relative to the past. I think materialism and arbitrary status seeking is one the decline for the young professional. High end professional fashion and fancy watches are nowhere to be seen in my office (well, pre-covid at least). Sure, there's social media doing its thing, but in the grand scheme of things it's importance to the average person's self image is small. I do care about access to high paying wages with work that gradually grows more high level over time. I do think working at a startup could be more fun, but I don't think it'd be a good idea worth doing, ever, given what I've got now. I am happy with what I've got. I make a chunk less than $200k, which isn't close to the very top tiers, but it's way more than I need. Yeah, probably could have gotten even more going a CS FANG route or a lucrative start up that just works. But personally I think everything more or less went as planned and I think that's great. I wouldn't go assuming that folks in similar positions aren't aware of the calculus here either. If someone says running a startup sounds really interesting, that's because there's a lot of cool stuff in it. The same could be said of being a commercial fisherman, or being a detective, or running a small restaurant. I mean running a small restaurant sounds awesome. But it also probably sucks. If someone asks me about it, I'm likely to focus on the positives. I'm not exactly being asked to sign my name on a career form here. If you decide to call me out on not actually wanting to drop my lucrative career for that startup/restaurant/fish boat, that's not me being sheepish, that's me trying to downplay an uncomfortable situation coupled with an apparent assumption that I'm unaware of my own vanity for status :/

bumby 6y ago
>High end professional fashion and fancy watches are nowhere to be seen in my office Do you think the status drive is the same, just replaced with different signals? I've often wondered if a lot of it is almost generationally defined. Boomers grew up in a time where cars were a major status symbol, but there's a high percentage of younger generations that don't even care to own a car. Based on what you stated, I wonder if the materialism has just been replaced by an experiential sense of status (e.g., who has the best Instagram-worthy vacation to share, or who has the coolest start-up story to tell, or the most 'artisan' career). I'm not claiming to know, just curious if these are just different means to the same end defined as the esteem of our collegues

gamblor956 6y ago

That's ironic because most of the tech founders I meet these days do it for the status, and just pretend to be entrepreneurs.

mcguire 6y ago
Q: What do you call the founder and CEO of a 1-2 person company that failed and went bankrupt? A: Founder and CEO.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  Most people would call them unemployed. Calling oneself Founder and CEO doesn't have much, if any, cachet outside of the tech world, since on its own it doesn't mean anything. What matters is what you actually did at the failed company. You know what a plumber in charge of a plumbing company calls himself? A plumber.
  - foobiekr 6y ago
    A few years ago I was asked to present at an alumni event. Afterwards I met with groups of students. It had been a very long day, and after the sixth or seventh group of students that met with me completed their "I'm the CEO, this is the CTO, this is the CMO, this is the COO... on, and this is our engineer" speech I looked at the CEO and accidentally snapped "Well, I guess you've learned an important lesson about how meaningless these titles are." So I agree with you - the pretentious titles hold very little cachet, and not just outside the tech world, but inside it as well. No one is actually impressed at the zero-experience CEO of his own company until he proves something even in tech.

mcguire 6y ago

"As a bootstrapped founder when I was younger..." How long were you willing to work for someone else before you became a founder? Status takes many forms.

tru3_power 6y ago

How did you survive initially without a steady source of income?