7 ms·

> I don't know what it is. I don't know how to fix it. But there's some very, very, very wrong stuff that happens when richer people move in. It shouldn't be th

> I don't know what it is. I don't know how to fix it. But there's some very, very, very wrong stuff that happens when richer people move in. It shouldn't be that way. Can you go into more details? I feel like this is a dangerous kind of statement because it is hard to draw a line for people to say what shouldn't and should be. Here is why the statement feels dangerous, it doesn't make arguments directly related to the group and can easily be expanded to: "But there's some very, very, very wrong stuff that happens when [people of color, poor people, lacking education, etc] move in. It shouldn't be that way." Perspective is always valuable even applied to what would be the unpopular opinions.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>Here is why the statement feels dangerous, it doesn't make arguments directly related to the group and can easily be expanded to: "But there's some very, very, very wrong stuff that happens when [people of color, poor people, lacking education, etc] move in. It shouldn't be that way." When poor people move in they don't have the resources to tell everyone else what to do and they don't tend to pick fights with whoever is there first. When rich people move in they get the government to cater to them and local laws change, often to the point where what was previously normal behavior (burning brush, discharging guns within city limits) is no longer even legal. They often pick fights with the local businesses ("I don't like how that second generation pig farm I knowingly bought property adjacent to smells" or they complain about the environmental impact of some third generation junkyard not because it's not folowing the law but because they find it unsighl). Furthermore they co-opt locals with their money. People who genuinely hate all the other changes they bring bury their heads in the sand because the newcomers are spending more money at their business (or whatever) until it finally negatively affects them personally. I would much, much, much rather have poor people move in than the white collar crowd because the former has bigger problems than me and the people around me Doing It Wrong(TM).
- waylandsmithers 6y ago
  You could add bans on smoking in all public spaces and plastic shopping bags as well
- evgen 6y ago
  The sense of entitlement in statements like 'there first', 'previously normal behavior', 'co-opt locals', and 'bury their heads in the sand because the newcomers are spending' is palpable. Sorry that you assumed everything was always going to stay the way you happened to like it just because people didn't have other options, but not sorry.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    There's a very wide gulf between "stay the way you happened to like" and "change in ways that pretty much nobody likes but nobody has any power to do anything about"
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > The sense of entitlement in statements like 'there first', 'previously normal behavior', 'co-opt locals', and 'bury their heads in the sand because the newcomers are spending' is palpable. Sorry that you assumed everything was always going to stay the way you happened to like it just because people didn't have other options, but not sorry. Entitlement is people with money thinking they can and should be able to change existing communities to their liking, just because they have money. It's weird, but there seems to be a common blind spot about certain kinds of wealth-enabled antisocial behavior.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
    It doesn't have to be a sense of entitlement. Many human societies around the world and through time give more priority to the idea that people build homes and community across time. The fact that we allow free movement into cities, towns and villages doesn't have to mean that "newcomers get an equal say" (although it certainly could). Why shouldn't a multi-generational community be able to say "we like it the way it is, and don't want random/arbitrary migration here to change that" ?
    - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
      I can't think of any way to give people more say based on how long they've been invested in a place that couldn't also be trivially used for voter suppression. I guess you could do preferential tax policy but that almost requires high taxes as a prerequisite which is a non-starter in a lot of places.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

>Here is why the statement feels dangerous, it doesn't make arguments directly related to the group and can easily be expanded to: "But there's some very, very, very wrong stuff that happens when [people of color, poor people, lacking education, etc] move in. It shouldn't be that way." When poor people move in they don't have the resources to tell everyone else what to do and they don't tend to pick fights with whoever is there first. When rich people move in they get the government to cater to them and local laws change, often to the point where what was previously normal behavior (burning brush, discharging guns within city limits) is no longer even legal. They often pick fights with the local businesses ("I don't like how that second generation pig farm I knowingly bought property adjacent to smells" or they complain about the environmental impact of some third generation junkyard not because it's not folowing the law but because they find it unsighl). Furthermore they co-opt locals with their money. People who genuinely hate all the other changes they bring bury their heads in the sand because the newcomers are spending more money at their business (or whatever) until it finally negatively affects them personally. I would much, much, much rather have poor people move in than the white collar crowd because the former has bigger problems than me and the people around me Doing It Wrong(TM).

waylandsmithers 6y ago
You could add bans on smoking in all public spaces and plastic shopping bags as well
evgen 6y ago
The sense of entitlement in statements like 'there first', 'previously normal behavior', 'co-opt locals', and 'bury their heads in the sand because the newcomers are spending' is palpable. Sorry that you assumed everything was always going to stay the way you happened to like it just because people didn't have other options, but not sorry.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  There's a very wide gulf between "stay the way you happened to like" and "change in ways that pretty much nobody likes but nobody has any power to do anything about"
- ardy42 6y ago
  > The sense of entitlement in statements like 'there first', 'previously normal behavior', 'co-opt locals', and 'bury their heads in the sand because the newcomers are spending' is palpable. Sorry that you assumed everything was always going to stay the way you happened to like it just because people didn't have other options, but not sorry. Entitlement is people with money thinking they can and should be able to change existing communities to their liking, just because they have money. It's weird, but there seems to be a common blind spot about certain kinds of wealth-enabled antisocial behavior.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  It doesn't have to be a sense of entitlement. Many human societies around the world and through time give more priority to the idea that people build homes and community across time. The fact that we allow free movement into cities, towns and villages doesn't have to mean that "newcomers get an equal say" (although it certainly could). Why shouldn't a multi-generational community be able to say "we like it the way it is, and don't want random/arbitrary migration here to change that" ?
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    I can't think of any way to give people more say based on how long they've been invested in a place that couldn't also be trivially used for voter suppression. I guess you could do preferential tax policy but that almost requires high taxes as a prerequisite which is a non-starter in a lot of places.