8 ms·

Yeah, 33 years old, haven't accomplished much, went into school to start a degree in programming, still low status and can't find a job anywhere. I'm not sure

Yeah, 33 years old, haven't accomplished much, went into school to start a degree in programming, still low status and can't find a job anywhere. I'm not sure willingness is the word for this. All I feel is bitterness. I'm not sure if this is me being reflective because it's my birthday today or what, but I'm so fucking sick of working so hard to get nowhere.

ecshafer 6y ago
FWIW Junior level jobs are by far the hardest jobs to get. They are the fewest openings, with the most applicants. And tech companies basically all use the same leetcode white boarding interviews that aren't representative of actually working. My unsolicited advice would be: Continue working on improving, apply to jobs where-ever you can, try to get experience somewhere (work with a professor, make your own startup, go on fiverr, anything).
mrleiter 6y ago
Happy birthday mate! :) hope you will find success soon, whatever it may mean to you.
spacemanmatt 6y ago
I am sorry the market is such crap for you. I would best describe my career as "clawing my way to the middle" while learning that economic class (the one I was born into) has had an outsized influence over my whole life. That was helpful for separating my actual enjoyment of engineering and development from an industry I've learned to resent. Best of luck to you.
afandian 6y ago
Happy birthday! There's plenty of time. And whatever setbacks you have in 2020 aren't your fault.
- javiramos 6y ago
  Yeah, 2020 has been a tough year for everyone
  - OJFord 6y ago
    I think if you started speculative stock-picking in March (as it seems many did) then it's quite likely you did pretty well. If you (that person) got out ~now, it's probably been a.. well, at least a year with a nice silver lining. (If you that person carried on it's not necessarily bad of course, but then you're just any old investor, it was a good year and maybe you'll have more good and more bad.)
    - rootusrootus 6y ago
      Anecdotally, I suspect a few people hosed themselves this year in the stock market. I met a few people early on in the pandemic who thought themselves very smart for paying attention to the news and getting their money out of the market before the first big drop. Admittedly, I haven't talked to them since, but they didn't seem to expect it to bounce right back up again. I wonder how many people out there did something similar. I remember back in 2008 one of the older voice engineers I knew, who was in his 60s and getting ready to retire, panicked and moved his money out of the market (it's a separate question why he still had so much in stocks) near the low point. He quietly canceled his retirement and worked another 5 years. Whoops.
      - OJFord 6y ago
        That's why I emphasised started in March. As in started putting new money in in at or around the low, I think plenty of that happened. Frankly I'm kicking myself for not doing as you say. I 'thought myself very smart' by being aware of it over the new year, reading how bad it will be, thinking markets will tank, and sticking to my guns because 'I won't try to time the dip'. And then of course with a modest amount of new money in March thought 'if I'd sold in January I'd definitely be pound cost averaging back in now, even if not piling back in, I'm an idiot for being 'sensible''. If I had though I'd probably be thinking it's crazy at the moment (or especially a week or two ago) and piling back out... Remains to be seen how well that would've gone. I think really it's all a good argument for separating 'boring, don't touch it, keep buying', and 'fun, dabble, hobby speculation'. Where the latter should be funded appropriately for what it is, a hobby.
jmnicolas 6y ago
Happy birthday! I hope you will find a job soon.
mettamage 6y ago
I feel the bitterness as well (31 here). A few observations/tips (that I gave myself): * I've noticed many don't appreciate the bitterness as the bitterness needs to align with their beliefs and people their beliefs are different. If it doesn't align, then all they feel are unpleasant emotions. * Being/feeling bitter is destroying my soul. Don't give into it, I know you have your justifications. I have mine, but ultimately it's a one way ticket to depression land and it's not a fun place. * Get rich on aspects that people don't pay attention to (aka how I also happen to win resource-based boardgames). Some examples are here [1]. * Keep networking * Keep improving * While showing bitterness is a risky thing, showing that you're looking for work is a good thing. Showing side projects is a good thing. Anything that looks constructive and positive in the area of where your needs aren't being met is a good thing. So focus on applying, focus on building stuff. * I know it's tiring, but what I'm experiencing is that now that I'm working at a company that the job is easy, because web dev is relatively easy compared to what I did at uni. Good luck, I hope that one day you'll be happy again. [1] Examples of getting rich on aspects that people don't pay attention to (e.g. when going for a job that has bad pay): - Flexible working hours - Ability to work 4 days per week - Amazing opportunity to learn - Flexibility to work from wherever - The flexibility to not always work at 100% Examples for if you aren't working (and can't find a job): - Freedom to work on whatever - Freedom to network with whomever - The freedom to work at a nice pace
- barrenko 6y ago
  Similar situation here, I am interpreting (or parsing) all of this as a test to see if I really do love the grind that much.
  - cfcosta 6y ago
    No need to, to be honest. The grind only goes while you still enjoy what you are doing. Anything else is harming your productivity and well-being, be careful. Also, development in a sense is a numbers game. You get more experience and try to expand as much as you can, rinse and repeat. Entrepreneurship is only another way, you can make it happen (and many of us did) just being a normal employee.
  - 6y ago
xnyan 6y ago
Very similar situation as you (at least on the surface). My only advice that has actually worked is network, network, network. I have a degree in Russian language, and now I'm a javascript dev. It only happened because 1) I can teach myself/back to school for programming and 2) I met and made friends with someone who knew someone who was hiring a entry-level dev. 2 was really the hard part, can't lie. It was years of effort, and I have no formula for it besides make and keep as many friends as you can. It kind of sucks for an introvert to do this, but growing your network of friends and acquaintances is the single most important thing I have done for my career.
RIMR 6y ago
The word you're looking for to describe the situation you're in is "capitalism". Nobody wants to be "low-status". That's a terrible narrative. All that's being illustrated here is that being low-status is the default, and success is a matter of luck, not of merit or hard work. Capitalism doesn't care how hard you work. It doesn't even care if you deserve the status you have (high or low). It cares about money above all else, even more than you.
- vinay427 6y ago
  > Capitalism doesn't care how hard you work. It doesn't even care if you deserve the status you have (high or low). It cares about money above all else, even more than you. Can you please explain this part? I have no idea what you actually mean by it and an unsure how it follows from capitalism.
peder 6y ago
I'll be the asshole here. You're probably making some critical mistakes that are holding you back. What is it that you are specifically trying to achieve and what are the reasons that you haven't been able to achieve those goals?
sjg007 6y ago
Happy Birthday! SQA is the easiest entry level job to get if you are technical. Get one of those and program your way to the top. Replace yourself with a program. Just keep programming and getting better. The competition is intense. I understand the feeling. Helping others will help you. Maybe offer to help out at the local high school teaching programming to the kids. A lot of parents wants their kid to code.

ecshafer 6y ago

FWIW Junior level jobs are by far the hardest jobs to get. They are the fewest openings, with the most applicants. And tech companies basically all use the same leetcode white boarding interviews that aren't representative of actually working. My unsolicited advice would be: Continue working on improving, apply to jobs where-ever you can, try to get experience somewhere (work with a professor, make your own startup, go on fiverr, anything).

mrleiter 6y ago

Happy birthday mate! :) hope you will find success soon, whatever it may mean to you.

spacemanmatt 6y ago

I am sorry the market is such crap for you. I would best describe my career as "clawing my way to the middle" while learning that economic class (the one I was born into) has had an outsized influence over my whole life. That was helpful for separating my actual enjoyment of engineering and development from an industry I've learned to resent. Best of luck to you.

afandian 6y ago

Happy birthday! There's plenty of time. And whatever setbacks you have in 2020 aren't your fault.

javiramos 6y ago
Yeah, 2020 has been a tough year for everyone
- OJFord 6y ago
  I think if you started speculative stock-picking in March (as it seems many did) then it's quite likely you did pretty well. If you (that person) got out ~now, it's probably been a.. well, at least a year with a nice silver lining. (If you that person carried on it's not necessarily bad of course, but then you're just any old investor, it was a good year and maybe you'll have more good and more bad.)
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    Anecdotally, I suspect a few people hosed themselves this year in the stock market. I met a few people early on in the pandemic who thought themselves very smart for paying attention to the news and getting their money out of the market before the first big drop. Admittedly, I haven't talked to them since, but they didn't seem to expect it to bounce right back up again. I wonder how many people out there did something similar. I remember back in 2008 one of the older voice engineers I knew, who was in his 60s and getting ready to retire, panicked and moved his money out of the market (it's a separate question why he still had so much in stocks) near the low point. He quietly canceled his retirement and worked another 5 years. Whoops.
    - OJFord 6y ago
      That's why I emphasised started in March. As in started putting new money in in at or around the low, I think plenty of that happened. Frankly I'm kicking myself for not doing as you say. I 'thought myself very smart' by being aware of it over the new year, reading how bad it will be, thinking markets will tank, and sticking to my guns because 'I won't try to time the dip'. And then of course with a modest amount of new money in March thought 'if I'd sold in January I'd definitely be pound cost averaging back in now, even if not piling back in, I'm an idiot for being 'sensible''. If I had though I'd probably be thinking it's crazy at the moment (or especially a week or two ago) and piling back out... Remains to be seen how well that would've gone. I think really it's all a good argument for separating 'boring, don't touch it, keep buying', and 'fun, dabble, hobby speculation'. Where the latter should be funded appropriately for what it is, a hobby.

jmnicolas 6y ago

Happy birthday! I hope you will find a job soon.

mettamage 6y ago

I feel the bitterness as well (31 here). A few observations/tips (that I gave myself): * I've noticed many don't appreciate the bitterness as the bitterness needs to align with their beliefs and people their beliefs are different. If it doesn't align, then all they feel are unpleasant emotions. * Being/feeling bitter is destroying my soul. Don't give into it, I know you have your justifications. I have mine, but ultimately it's a one way ticket to depression land and it's not a fun place. * Get rich on aspects that people don't pay attention to (aka how I also happen to win resource-based boardgames). Some examples are here [1]. * Keep networking * Keep improving * While showing bitterness is a risky thing, showing that you're looking for work is a good thing. Showing side projects is a good thing. Anything that looks constructive and positive in the area of where your needs aren't being met is a good thing. So focus on applying, focus on building stuff. * I know it's tiring, but what I'm experiencing is that now that I'm working at a company that the job is easy, because web dev is relatively easy compared to what I did at uni. Good luck, I hope that one day you'll be happy again. [1] Examples of getting rich on aspects that people don't pay attention to (e.g. when going for a job that has bad pay): - Flexible working hours - Ability to work 4 days per week - Amazing opportunity to learn - Flexibility to work from wherever - The flexibility to not always work at 100% Examples for if you aren't working (and can't find a job): - Freedom to work on whatever - Freedom to network with whomever - The freedom to work at a nice pace

barrenko 6y ago
Similar situation here, I am interpreting (or parsing) all of this as a test to see if I really do love the grind that much.
- cfcosta 6y ago
  No need to, to be honest. The grind only goes while you still enjoy what you are doing. Anything else is harming your productivity and well-being, be careful. Also, development in a sense is a numbers game. You get more experience and try to expand as much as you can, rinse and repeat. Entrepreneurship is only another way, you can make it happen (and many of us did) just being a normal employee.
- 6y ago

xnyan 6y ago

Very similar situation as you (at least on the surface). My only advice that has actually worked is network, network, network. I have a degree in Russian language, and now I'm a javascript dev. It only happened because 1) I can teach myself/back to school for programming and 2) I met and made friends with someone who knew someone who was hiring a entry-level dev. 2 was really the hard part, can't lie. It was years of effort, and I have no formula for it besides make and keep as many friends as you can. It kind of sucks for an introvert to do this, but growing your network of friends and acquaintances is the single most important thing I have done for my career.

RIMR 6y ago

The word you're looking for to describe the situation you're in is "capitalism". Nobody wants to be "low-status". That's a terrible narrative. All that's being illustrated here is that being low-status is the default, and success is a matter of luck, not of merit or hard work. Capitalism doesn't care how hard you work. It doesn't even care if you deserve the status you have (high or low). It cares about money above all else, even more than you.

vinay427 6y ago
> Capitalism doesn't care how hard you work. It doesn't even care if you deserve the status you have (high or low). It cares about money above all else, even more than you. Can you please explain this part? I have no idea what you actually mean by it and an unsure how it follows from capitalism.

peder 6y ago

I'll be the asshole here. You're probably making some critical mistakes that are holding you back. What is it that you are specifically trying to achieve and what are the reasons that you haven't been able to achieve those goals?

sjg007 6y ago

Happy Birthday! SQA is the easiest entry level job to get if you are technical. Get one of those and program your way to the top. Replace yourself with a program. Just keep programming and getting better. The competition is intense. I understand the feeling. Helping others will help you. Maybe offer to help out at the local high school teaching programming to the kids. A lot of parents wants their kid to code.