4 ms·

Simone de Beauvoir is not exactly a comment magnet on HN, is she? https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=simone%20de%20beauvoir&sort=b

Simone de Beauvoir is not exactly a comment magnet on HN, is she? https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=simone%20de%20beauvoir&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

ggm 6y ago
Montparnasse cemetary is worth a visit. Dreyfus is there as well, if you hunt a bit further afield than Simone and Jean-Paul. And the Cartier-Bresson museum is nearby. I assumed all the french writers hung together, but my favourite of these times after Camus is Raymond Queneau, who wrote "zazie dans le metro" and he was an almost exact contemporary of De Beauvoir, in time. They just seem to have led parallel, unrelated lives. Both communist, but no strong linkages. here's a pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/381891243372004539/ https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/381891243372004539/ thats about it. Amazing to plug two contemporary French modernist writers in the same time interval into search and come up with basically, only friend-of-a-friend.
- ArnoVW 6y ago
  I suppose there were intellectual / philosopher. And "having strong opinions losely held" was not a thing back then (certainly in France), so I guess it is easy to understand why they didn't hang out together. Sartre and Camus were friends for some time, but that changed when Camus published "L'homme révolté" in 1951, and they became bitter enemies. But in a sense all the existentialists did hang out, because this whole époque is linked to the "rive gauche" (left bank), an area of Paris. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jul/11/left-bank-agnes-poirier-review-existentialism-jazz-paris-1940s https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jul/11/left-bank-agne... And mind you, Simone and Jean-Paul were married, but I guess you knew that.
unixhero 6y ago
Honestly filologically Simone de Beauvoir presents very complex philosophical ideas. She was at the forefront of feminism and made the original philosophical case. That's pretty much the gist if what I can remember. Here are the elements: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/beauvoir/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/beauvoir/ Also worth noting, she was in love with Jean Paul Sartre whom used cafes as his office. They were regulars at a certain cafe and would sit there for days. Pics or it didn't happen? https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/existentialism-sarah-bakewell-jean-paul-sartre-simone-de-beauvoir-a6901501.html https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/featu... Okay that's all I had.
dotsam 6y ago
She was a sharp thinker, keenly introspective and bold. I would have imagined that she would appeal to the HN audience. Beyond the Second Sex, which has significant status in the history of feminism, her autobiographical Memoirs of a Dutiful Daughter and A Very Easy Death are beautiful reads that show her insight and self-awareness; I would recommend them. For accessible general reading about the existentialists, including Beauvoir, I enjoyed At The Existentialist Café by Sarah Bakewell.
- coolandsmartrr 6y ago
  Seconding your recommendation of At The Existentialist Café.
- jfengel 6y ago
  I've found that HN isn't really great in discussing feminism. While the median reader is, I think, nebulously feminist, there is an extremely vocal anti-feminist contingent, and not a huge number of people talking seriously about feminism. I speak about feminism only by carefully avoiding any of the words they find triggering, and still usually not received well. Philosophy doesn't get a great shake, either. HN discussion of philosophy seems to concern itself mostly with caricatures of postmodernism and logical positivism.
  - ReactiveJelly 6y ago
    Feminism has the same PR problem as veganism: They're granfalloons. [1] They're hashtags. We can't kick people out of a hashtag, and it's not even clear what ideas fall under a given hashtag. We could have productive discussion about ideas themselves: * Should the government subsidize dairy? * Should the government pay for maternity leave? Should employers? We can talk about what works in Europe, whether money is really fungible, and how to provide welfare without distorting the market or accidentally causing hiring discrimination. But it's less productive to discuss people: * Is Contrapoints right? * Is Joaquin Phoenix right? You get sidetracked with "Remember that time she hired Buck Angel? Remember that time Joaquin starred in Joker?" That's not discussion. That's a fan-made tabloid. And it's useless to discuss hashtags: * Does feminism?? * Is veganism??? "Remember that blog that said hetero sex is inherently bad? Remember that time a PETA employee killed someone's pet dog?" Now we're 2 cuils from changing minds. I am guessing this is a problem on HN, because it's a problem everywhere. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granfalloon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granfalloon Edit: Formatting trouble. I'm new here
brmgb 6y ago
De Beauvoir is a controversial figure. She undoubtedly had a major influence on feminism but it is also firmly established that she abused her position as a teacher and a famous writer to groom some of her teenage students into sexual relationships with her before tossing them to her boyfriend.
- burntoutfire 6y ago
  She's also controversial (to say the least) for her smear campaign against Albert Camus, who didn't publicly endorse hers and her boyfriend Sartre's pro-Soviet politics.
- croissants 6y ago
  Geez, I knew that France has had a...different relationship with age of consent laws, but I didn't know so many of their "great thinkers" were against the idea completely [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petition_against_age_of_consent_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petition_against_age_of...
ReactiveJelly 6y ago
From the header of the article: "Gender and sexuality" "Simone de Beauvoir’s relationship with her readers was a mutually demanding collaboration." I do love talking about gender and sexuality. I just don't know who Simone de Beauvoir is. The headline is about Simone, not about gender or feminism. It's like if there was a biography of Steve Klabnik. He's got something to do with Rust. I'd love to talk about Rust. I don't have any useful opinion on Steve himself.
- wombatmobile 6y ago
  What do you love about talking about gender and sexuality? Would you consider than any part of your interest has anything to do with your lived experience as a gendered human? If not, then I can understand the analogy you enjoin when you draw a line between Rust and Steve Klabnik. Nobody has to know anything about Steve Klabnik to be able to parse Rust or a syntax guide to Rust. Feminism is different when you consider that each of us experiences the world through a gender lens, particularly when you consider that many of us are unaware that the lens exists and occludes our vision as well as forms it. How do people of a gender you don't share experience the world? I'm not sure how you'd know until you listened to them describe their lived experience. In the case of Beauvoir, you are fortunate. Her life bridges a gap between pre-feminism and post-feminist worlds. If you love talking about gender and sexuality, Beauvoir's life is fertile grounds for many interesting conversations you may enjoy with other people of all genders for the rest of your life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTdTNr1-y-c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTdTNr1-y-c

ggm 6y ago

Montparnasse cemetary is worth a visit. Dreyfus is there as well, if you hunt a bit further afield than Simone and Jean-Paul. And the Cartier-Bresson museum is nearby. I assumed all the french writers hung together, but my favourite of these times after Camus is Raymond Queneau, who wrote "zazie dans le metro" and he was an almost exact contemporary of De Beauvoir, in time. They just seem to have led parallel, unrelated lives. Both communist, but no strong linkages. here's a pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/381891243372004539/ https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/381891243372004539/ thats about it. Amazing to plug two contemporary French modernist writers in the same time interval into search and come up with basically, only friend-of-a-friend.

ArnoVW 6y ago
I suppose there were intellectual / philosopher. And "having strong opinions losely held" was not a thing back then (certainly in France), so I guess it is easy to understand why they didn't hang out together. Sartre and Camus were friends for some time, but that changed when Camus published "L'homme révolté" in 1951, and they became bitter enemies. But in a sense all the existentialists did hang out, because this whole époque is linked to the "rive gauche" (left bank), an area of Paris. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jul/11/left-bank-agnes-poirier-review-existentialism-jazz-paris-1940s https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jul/11/left-bank-agne... And mind you, Simone and Jean-Paul were married, but I guess you knew that.

unixhero 6y ago

Honestly filologically Simone de Beauvoir presents very complex philosophical ideas. She was at the forefront of feminism and made the original philosophical case. That's pretty much the gist if what I can remember. Here are the elements: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/beauvoir/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/beauvoir/ Also worth noting, she was in love with Jean Paul Sartre whom used cafes as his office. They were regulars at a certain cafe and would sit there for days. Pics or it didn't happen? https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/existentialism-sarah-bakewell-jean-paul-sartre-simone-de-beauvoir-a6901501.html https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/featu... Okay that's all I had.

dotsam 6y ago

She was a sharp thinker, keenly introspective and bold. I would have imagined that she would appeal to the HN audience. Beyond the Second Sex, which has significant status in the history of feminism, her autobiographical Memoirs of a Dutiful Daughter and A Very Easy Death are beautiful reads that show her insight and self-awareness; I would recommend them. For accessible general reading about the existentialists, including Beauvoir, I enjoyed At The Existentialist Café by Sarah Bakewell.

coolandsmartrr 6y ago
Seconding your recommendation of At The Existentialist Café.
jfengel 6y ago
I've found that HN isn't really great in discussing feminism. While the median reader is, I think, nebulously feminist, there is an extremely vocal anti-feminist contingent, and not a huge number of people talking seriously about feminism. I speak about feminism only by carefully avoiding any of the words they find triggering, and still usually not received well. Philosophy doesn't get a great shake, either. HN discussion of philosophy seems to concern itself mostly with caricatures of postmodernism and logical positivism.
- ReactiveJelly 6y ago
  Feminism has the same PR problem as veganism: They're granfalloons. [1] They're hashtags. We can't kick people out of a hashtag, and it's not even clear what ideas fall under a given hashtag. We could have productive discussion about ideas themselves: * Should the government subsidize dairy? * Should the government pay for maternity leave? Should employers? We can talk about what works in Europe, whether money is really fungible, and how to provide welfare without distorting the market or accidentally causing hiring discrimination. But it's less productive to discuss people: * Is Contrapoints right? * Is Joaquin Phoenix right? You get sidetracked with "Remember that time she hired Buck Angel? Remember that time Joaquin starred in Joker?" That's not discussion. That's a fan-made tabloid. And it's useless to discuss hashtags: * Does feminism?? * Is veganism??? "Remember that blog that said hetero sex is inherently bad? Remember that time a PETA employee killed someone's pet dog?" Now we're 2 cuils from changing minds. I am guessing this is a problem on HN, because it's a problem everywhere. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granfalloon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granfalloon Edit: Formatting trouble. I'm new here

brmgb 6y ago

De Beauvoir is a controversial figure. She undoubtedly had a major influence on feminism but it is also firmly established that she abused her position as a teacher and a famous writer to groom some of her teenage students into sexual relationships with her before tossing them to her boyfriend.

burntoutfire 6y ago
She's also controversial (to say the least) for her smear campaign against Albert Camus, who didn't publicly endorse hers and her boyfriend Sartre's pro-Soviet politics.
croissants 6y ago
Geez, I knew that France has had a...different relationship with age of consent laws, but I didn't know so many of their "great thinkers" were against the idea completely [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petition_against_age_of_consent_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petition_against_age_of...

ReactiveJelly 6y ago

From the header of the article: "Gender and sexuality" "Simone de Beauvoir’s relationship with her readers was a mutually demanding collaboration." I do love talking about gender and sexuality. I just don't know who Simone de Beauvoir is. The headline is about Simone, not about gender or feminism. It's like if there was a biography of Steve Klabnik. He's got something to do with Rust. I'd love to talk about Rust. I don't have any useful opinion on Steve himself.

wombatmobile 6y ago
What do you love about talking about gender and sexuality? Would you consider than any part of your interest has anything to do with your lived experience as a gendered human? If not, then I can understand the analogy you enjoin when you draw a line between Rust and Steve Klabnik. Nobody has to know anything about Steve Klabnik to be able to parse Rust or a syntax guide to Rust. Feminism is different when you consider that each of us experiences the world through a gender lens, particularly when you consider that many of us are unaware that the lens exists and occludes our vision as well as forms it. How do people of a gender you don't share experience the world? I'm not sure how you'd know until you listened to them describe their lived experience. In the case of Beauvoir, you are fortunate. Her life bridges a gap between pre-feminism and post-feminist worlds. If you love talking about gender and sexuality, Beauvoir's life is fertile grounds for many interesting conversations you may enjoy with other people of all genders for the rest of your life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTdTNr1-y-c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTdTNr1-y-c