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in the near term, companies making iPhone and iPad competitors are never going to beat Apple at their own game. We must then assume that Android is playing som

in the near term, companies making iPhone and iPad competitors are never going to beat Apple at their own game. We must then assume that Android is playing some other game. Either that, or he is simply ignoring large facts that don't fit his narrative. I would say a bit of both - Android is different ecosystem, but to ignore Android's market impact in smart-phones is negligent.

sasidharm 15y ago
I think he is talking primarily about OEMs. Except HTC, i dont think any other OEM building iPhone/iPad competitors is making much money.
- dotBen 15y ago
  I'm pretty sure in the handset division, Motorola is making good revenues with the Droid family. They are still some of the most popular handsets, certainly on Verizon. What impact the failed Xoom has taken on their bottom line, I don't know however.
  - 18pfsmt 15y ago
    They report earnings this Thurs after the bell, so we will see then.
combray 15y ago
Apple's iPhone sales alone just surpassed Nokia's -- http://www.9computerstore.com/2011/04/22/apple-tops-in-handset-manufacturers-in-revenue http://www.9computerstore.com/2011/04/22/apple-tops-in-hands... -- and that's only talking about the phone part. It's not taking into the (in my opinion) the much more important iPod Touch through iPad market, which the Android has no answer to at all on the low end and no really contenders on the upper end. If smart-phones was actually the market that we were talking about, the fact that my iPhone sucks balls for making actual phone calls would matter.
- Raphael 15y ago
  It's getting close to Samsung putting out a competitor to the iPod Touch. I believe it's already out in Korea. http://www.mobiletechnews.com/info/2011/04/07/104922.html http://www.mobiletechnews.com/info/2011/04/07/104922.html
- kylewpppd 15y ago
  iPhone passed Nokia in terms of smartphone sales in dollar terms. Apple does not ship more units than Nokia. It's quite amazing really, that Apple comes in as a late entrant and shaves all the massive profits off the top, leaving the rest of the market to fight over less profitable items.
kahawe 15y ago
Also considering this: "Android Jumps Past iOS in Overall U.S. Smartphone Usage" http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1143384 http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1143384
webwright 15y ago
Fuel to that fire: "Nielsen: Consumer Desire for Android Grows (unlike iOS and Blackberry" http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/26/nielsen-consumer-desire-for-android-grows-unlike-ios-and-blackberry/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/26/nielsen-consumer-desire-for...
ja2ke 15y ago
Is there a single Android handset that competes with the iPhone in terms of units, or is it "Android collectively beats iPad and iPhone collectively?" I think Kottke was referring to specific one off products like the iphone itself. Google and the rest of the handset world collectively has surpassed iOS usage, but we know that the iOS pie slice consists of just 3 broad models -- iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch -- while Android slice consists of seemingly every other phone under the sun. How does the landscape look if you stop looking at it by collective mobile OS and start looking by handset model line? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity, not to try and prove a point, so if this post sounds smarmy or anything its not deliberate. Culturally, collectively, "Android" seems like it is going toe to toe with iOS, but when you get down to single models, everyone talks about the iPhone and iPad, but not much about specific Android-sporting handsets. Android, in those conversation, always gets abstracted back down (incorrectly) to a nebulous brand/make, or (correctly) a platform.
- StrawberryFrog 15y ago
  The statement iPhone and iPad competitors are never going to beat Apple at their own game seems wrong (note the "never going to"), since I'd say that Android collectively may well beat iPad and iPhone collectively. To say that iPhone is number 1 at present is plausible, to say that there is no threat to that is not plausible. I'm not going to argue about "my phone is better than your phone"; but Android is definitely in the market and rising: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Android-Has-37-of-US-Smartphone-Share-Nielsen-681962/ http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Android-Has-37-... I think it's wrong to focus on particular models with Android, that's not how Android is getting traction.
  - ja2ke 15y ago
    Android handset makers aren't competing with each other? Even if they aren't right now, or if Android is the one thing they don't publicly compete over, that will change. If the iOS slice of the pie shrinks enough at the expense of the Android slice, don't be surprised if unifying "Android" branding starts disappearing from all handset advertising. They'll all want to talk about how they're unique and better an not the other guys, not about how they're holding hands.
tjogin 15y ago
Android is not an iPhone competitor, it's an operating system. HTC, SonyEricsson, LG, Nokia, etc are competitors.
- epo 15y ago
  Fair enough, if so then compare Android with iOS and the Android userbase with the iOS userbase, i.e. the iPad, iPod Touch. The fandroids in topics like this one are delusional and seemingly motivated by anti-Apple hatred. Reminds me of all the Linux advocates who 5 or so years ago insisted that Linux and OpenOffice were going to take over the desktop from Windows and Office. Market share means nothing when the adopters are freetards, you may have some numbers, you will not have quality of revenue. And anyway, what is the return rate like on Android handsets?
  - tjogin 15y ago
    I agree, and furthermore, based on my own observations, it seems like a lot of Android users don't even know that their phone is running Android, much less have ever heard of anything called "the Android marketplace". Those users don't count towards the size of the platform, by any useful metric.

sasidharm 15y ago

I think he is talking primarily about OEMs. Except HTC, i dont think any other OEM building iPhone/iPad competitors is making much money.

dotBen 15y ago
I'm pretty sure in the handset division, Motorola is making good revenues with the Droid family. They are still some of the most popular handsets, certainly on Verizon. What impact the failed Xoom has taken on their bottom line, I don't know however.
- 18pfsmt 15y ago
  They report earnings this Thurs after the bell, so we will see then.

combray 15y ago

Apple's iPhone sales alone just surpassed Nokia's -- http://www.9computerstore.com/2011/04/22/apple-tops-in-handset-manufacturers-in-revenue http://www.9computerstore.com/2011/04/22/apple-tops-in-hands... -- and that's only talking about the phone part. It's not taking into the (in my opinion) the much more important iPod Touch through iPad market, which the Android has no answer to at all on the low end and no really contenders on the upper end. If smart-phones was actually the market that we were talking about, the fact that my iPhone sucks balls for making actual phone calls would matter.

Raphael 15y ago
It's getting close to Samsung putting out a competitor to the iPod Touch. I believe it's already out in Korea. http://www.mobiletechnews.com/info/2011/04/07/104922.html http://www.mobiletechnews.com/info/2011/04/07/104922.html
kylewpppd 15y ago
iPhone passed Nokia in terms of smartphone sales in dollar terms. Apple does not ship more units than Nokia. It's quite amazing really, that Apple comes in as a late entrant and shaves all the massive profits off the top, leaving the rest of the market to fight over less profitable items.

kahawe 15y ago

Also considering this: "Android Jumps Past iOS in Overall U.S. Smartphone Usage" http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1143384 http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1143384

webwright 15y ago

Fuel to that fire: "Nielsen: Consumer Desire for Android Grows (unlike iOS and Blackberry" http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/26/nielsen-consumer-desire-for-android-grows-unlike-ios-and-blackberry/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/26/nielsen-consumer-desire-for...

ja2ke 15y ago

Is there a single Android handset that competes with the iPhone in terms of units, or is it "Android collectively beats iPad and iPhone collectively?" I think Kottke was referring to specific one off products like the iphone itself. Google and the rest of the handset world collectively has surpassed iOS usage, but we know that the iOS pie slice consists of just 3 broad models -- iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch -- while Android slice consists of seemingly every other phone under the sun. How does the landscape look if you stop looking at it by collective mobile OS and start looking by handset model line? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity, not to try and prove a point, so if this post sounds smarmy or anything its not deliberate. Culturally, collectively, "Android" seems like it is going toe to toe with iOS, but when you get down to single models, everyone talks about the iPhone and iPad, but not much about specific Android-sporting handsets. Android, in those conversation, always gets abstracted back down (incorrectly) to a nebulous brand/make, or (correctly) a platform.

StrawberryFrog 15y ago
The statement iPhone and iPad competitors are never going to beat Apple at their own game seems wrong (note the "never going to"), since I'd say that Android collectively may well beat iPad and iPhone collectively. To say that iPhone is number 1 at present is plausible, to say that there is no threat to that is not plausible. I'm not going to argue about "my phone is better than your phone"; but Android is definitely in the market and rising: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Android-Has-37-of-US-Smartphone-Share-Nielsen-681962/ http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Android-Has-37-... I think it's wrong to focus on particular models with Android, that's not how Android is getting traction.
- ja2ke 15y ago
  Android handset makers aren't competing with each other? Even if they aren't right now, or if Android is the one thing they don't publicly compete over, that will change. If the iOS slice of the pie shrinks enough at the expense of the Android slice, don't be surprised if unifying "Android" branding starts disappearing from all handset advertising. They'll all want to talk about how they're unique and better an not the other guys, not about how they're holding hands.

tjogin 15y ago

Android is not an iPhone competitor, it's an operating system. HTC, SonyEricsson, LG, Nokia, etc are competitors.

epo 15y ago
Fair enough, if so then compare Android with iOS and the Android userbase with the iOS userbase, i.e. the iPad, iPod Touch. The fandroids in topics like this one are delusional and seemingly motivated by anti-Apple hatred. Reminds me of all the Linux advocates who 5 or so years ago insisted that Linux and OpenOffice were going to take over the desktop from Windows and Office. Market share means nothing when the adopters are freetards, you may have some numbers, you will not have quality of revenue. And anyway, what is the return rate like on Android handsets?
- tjogin 15y ago
  I agree, and furthermore, based on my own observations, it seems like a lot of Android users don't even know that their phone is running Android, much less have ever heard of anything called "the Android marketplace". Those users don't count towards the size of the platform, by any useful metric.