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I always say this whenever this comes up, but, the number of duis since Uber has been operating have dropped precipitously. I don’t want to be on California roa

I always say this whenever this comes up, but, the number of duis since Uber has been operating have dropped precipitously. I don’t want to be on California roads late at night without Uber.

Larrikin 6y ago
I don't care if uber can't pay back their VCs and goes under because of this ruling. There is a model that has shown to have a service people want and are willing to pay for, the market will find the right price with a different company. Drunk driving reduction has been a good thing about these services, but it doesn't need to be uber.
- foota 6y ago
  It could be that the market won't exist (or that the quality of service will diminish because of the lower network effects) if there isn't sufficient demand at a break even price post legislation.
  - VRay 6y ago
    I'll bet you could set up an actual marketplace with automated matchmaking it probably wouldn't be as good as Uber/Lyft can make things by forcing "contractors" to take unprofitable rides, though
    - koolba 6y ago
      And then you’re back to the NYC pre-2009 model where you can get a cab anywhere in Manhattan but good luck getting home from Bushwick.
      - mepiethree 6y ago
        yeah, life is so much better now that we can exploit labor to get ubiquitous and cheap rides
        koolba 6y ago
        I'm fine with raising the prices to something sustainable. There's no reason it has to be below minimum wage + the cost of maintaining the car. What I'm not okay with is going back to the only option being a oddly smelling yellow cab that will only pick you up in the profitable parts of the city and refuses to take you parts of the city they deem unprofitable on the return trip. I truly believe that Travis Kalanick has done more to stop drunk driving and end racism than any other for-profit company of the past two decades.
        VRay 6y ago
        yeah, I hate Uber and Lyft more than most, but I have to admit that you're totally right about it being an unambiguous upgrade over taxi service I used to get super angry every time I had to take a taxi in the Bay Area. Before I got in I'd say "OK, your credit card reader is working, right?" and they'd swear it is, and then wouldn't you know it? Somehow the machine broke down between the airport and my destination EVERY TIME. The drivers would pitch a hissy fit when I refused to pay cash, and then they'd manually take a print of my card or write down the number. It cost something like $60 for a 20 minute ride, and they had the audacity to expect a huge tip on top of that. Fuck those guys. I'm pretty sure they're all lying about their income and hiding it from the government to commit tax fraud. For a brief period before Uber took off, they'd even started using personal Square readers to charge credit cards instead of the official ones built into their cars. That said, I'm willing to bet that society won't tolerate a return to how things used to be, even if Uber and Lyft leave the state after we shoot down Prop 22. There's such a vast gulf in price difference between a taxi and an uber that I'm sure we can reach a comfortable middle ground where drivers make a living wage without us living under a scumbag taxi rein of terror
        mepiethree 6y ago
        Taxis basically predate the app boom. The world has changed a lot since 2011. I suspect that if Uber leaves, some scrappy people will be able make a simple app that does 90% of what Uber does that consumers actually care about, but without the need to pay back billions in VC funding
    - foota 6y ago
      > I'll bet you could set up an actual marketplace with automated matchmaking > it probably wouldn't be as good as Uber/Lyft can make things by forcing "contractors" to take unprofitable rides, though I think it's hard to tell what would happen. There's no reason that we would necessarily expect that uber drivers would not take lower wages for rides if they had to in a market. It's hard to know whether Uber deflates the price of rides to keep demand high (and thereby steals surprlus from the drivers) or whether they inflate the price of rides to take a larger cut (and thereby steal surplus from riders). Of course it's also hard to say whether if the price to the consumer went down the drivers would actually make more without Uber if the theoretical drop in price was less than the extra amount drivers get from Uber's previous cut.
      - thaumasiotes 6y ago
        > It's hard to know whether Uber deflates the price of rides to keep demand high (and thereby steals surprlus from the drivers) or whether they inflate the price of rides to take a larger cut (and thereby steal surplus from riders). Do they do either of these? Their historical approach has been to subsidize the rides, which enriches both passengers and drivers at Uber's expense.
        foota 6y ago
        From what I've heard Uber is profitable in markets they are not expanding in.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- mathnovice 6y ago
  > There is a model that has shown to have a service people want and are willing to pay for, the market will find the right price with a different company If the right price is more than outright owning a car I don't see how. Today I don't drive because I can uber. If ubers end up costing me more than $300 a month I'll just get a car.
- Dirlewanger 6y ago
  After you remove the VC funny money subsidy, prices will probably be right around what taxis are today. And we'll be right back where we started. At least there's a nice phone application now and I don't need to call someone to send me a taxi.
whyrusleeping 6y ago
Wow, these are some impressive numbers: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/uploads/2020/06/S5-260-1.pdf https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/uploads/2020/06/S5-260-1.pdf (note: uber launched in 2009) You can't say there's causation here necessarily, but the correlation is significant.
- muglug 6y ago
  Important caveat: the number of alcohol-involved deaths & injuries hasn’t really changed, so it could just be a change in the way those crimes are policed.
muglug 6y ago
Yes, but it’s impossible to know how much of that is due to a change in policing. There’s a much less significant drop in the number of alcohol-involved car accident injuries.

I always say this whenever this comes up, but, the number of duis since Uber has been operating have dropped precipitously. I don’t want to be on California roads late at night without Uber.

Larrikin 6y ago

I don't care if uber can't pay back their VCs and goes under because of this ruling. There is a model that has shown to have a service people want and are willing to pay for, the market will find the right price with a different company. Drunk driving reduction has been a good thing about these services, but it doesn't need to be uber.

foota 6y ago
It could be that the market won't exist (or that the quality of service will diminish because of the lower network effects) if there isn't sufficient demand at a break even price post legislation.
- VRay 6y ago
  I'll bet you could set up an actual marketplace with automated matchmaking it probably wouldn't be as good as Uber/Lyft can make things by forcing "contractors" to take unprofitable rides, though
  - koolba 6y ago
    And then you’re back to the NYC pre-2009 model where you can get a cab anywhere in Manhattan but good luck getting home from Bushwick.
    - mepiethree 6y ago
      yeah, life is so much better now that we can exploit labor to get ubiquitous and cheap rides
      - koolba 6y ago
        I'm fine with raising the prices to something sustainable. There's no reason it has to be below minimum wage + the cost of maintaining the car. What I'm not okay with is going back to the only option being a oddly smelling yellow cab that will only pick you up in the profitable parts of the city and refuses to take you parts of the city they deem unprofitable on the return trip. I truly believe that Travis Kalanick has done more to stop drunk driving and end racism than any other for-profit company of the past two decades.
        VRay 6y ago
        yeah, I hate Uber and Lyft more than most, but I have to admit that you're totally right about it being an unambiguous upgrade over taxi service I used to get super angry every time I had to take a taxi in the Bay Area. Before I got in I'd say "OK, your credit card reader is working, right?" and they'd swear it is, and then wouldn't you know it? Somehow the machine broke down between the airport and my destination EVERY TIME. The drivers would pitch a hissy fit when I refused to pay cash, and then they'd manually take a print of my card or write down the number. It cost something like $60 for a 20 minute ride, and they had the audacity to expect a huge tip on top of that. Fuck those guys. I'm pretty sure they're all lying about their income and hiding it from the government to commit tax fraud. For a brief period before Uber took off, they'd even started using personal Square readers to charge credit cards instead of the official ones built into their cars. That said, I'm willing to bet that society won't tolerate a return to how things used to be, even if Uber and Lyft leave the state after we shoot down Prop 22. There's such a vast gulf in price difference between a taxi and an uber that I'm sure we can reach a comfortable middle ground where drivers make a living wage without us living under a scumbag taxi rein of terror
        mepiethree 6y ago
        Taxis basically predate the app boom. The world has changed a lot since 2011. I suspect that if Uber leaves, some scrappy people will be able make a simple app that does 90% of what Uber does that consumers actually care about, but without the need to pay back billions in VC funding
  - foota 6y ago
    > I'll bet you could set up an actual marketplace with automated matchmaking > it probably wouldn't be as good as Uber/Lyft can make things by forcing "contractors" to take unprofitable rides, though I think it's hard to tell what would happen. There's no reason that we would necessarily expect that uber drivers would not take lower wages for rides if they had to in a market. It's hard to know whether Uber deflates the price of rides to keep demand high (and thereby steals surprlus from the drivers) or whether they inflate the price of rides to take a larger cut (and thereby steal surplus from riders). Of course it's also hard to say whether if the price to the consumer went down the drivers would actually make more without Uber if the theoretical drop in price was less than the extra amount drivers get from Uber's previous cut.
    - thaumasiotes 6y ago
      > It's hard to know whether Uber deflates the price of rides to keep demand high (and thereby steals surprlus from the drivers) or whether they inflate the price of rides to take a larger cut (and thereby steal surplus from riders). Do they do either of these? Their historical approach has been to subsidize the rides, which enriches both passengers and drivers at Uber's expense.
      - foota 6y ago
        From what I've heard Uber is profitable in markets they are not expanding in.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
mathnovice 6y ago
> There is a model that has shown to have a service people want and are willing to pay for, the market will find the right price with a different company If the right price is more than outright owning a car I don't see how. Today I don't drive because I can uber. If ubers end up costing me more than $300 a month I'll just get a car.
Dirlewanger 6y ago
After you remove the VC funny money subsidy, prices will probably be right around what taxis are today. And we'll be right back where we started. At least there's a nice phone application now and I don't need to call someone to send me a taxi.

whyrusleeping 6y ago

Wow, these are some impressive numbers: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/uploads/2020/06/S5-260-1.pdf https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/uploads/2020/06/S5-260-1.pdf (note: uber launched in 2009) You can't say there's causation here necessarily, but the correlation is significant.

muglug 6y ago
Important caveat: the number of alcohol-involved deaths & injuries hasn’t really changed, so it could just be a change in the way those crimes are policed.

muglug 6y ago

Yes, but it’s impossible to know how much of that is due to a change in policing. There’s a much less significant drop in the number of alcohol-involved car accident injuries.