5 ms·

If it's a good PhD program then they will pay you to attend. No need to take out loans.

by laretluval 6y ago

throwawaygh 6y ago
Raising 2 kids on $30K/yr requires loans.
- engineer_22 6y ago
  Or a lifestyle change. Take your pick.
  - throwawaygh 6y ago
    Literal poverty isn't a "lifestyle".
    - barumi 6y ago
      Smart people don't take out loans to finance a lifestyle that's not compatible with their income.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - throwawaygh 6y ago
        ...I think you lost the thread of the conversation, buddy.
    - benibela 6y ago
      Poverty guideline for 2 kids is $26k But who is getting 30k anyways? If that is the stipend of one grad student, you need to double it to get the household of two grad students, and then it is over the median household income. The median income is not poverty
      - throwawaygh 6y ago
        > Poverty guideline for 2 kids is $26k Typical grad stipends outside of top-5 schools are closer to $20K. $30K is damn close to an upper bound. That's what the tippy-top schools pay the top 1% of students. The few schools that go higher -- AFAIK in CS only NYC+Boston+CA -- are in markets where a single bedroom in a shared house runs $1K+/mo. And in that sort of rental market the federal poverty guideline is rote bullshit. $16K is perfectly normal for the vast majority of folks who aren't at top 5 programs in the most in-demand field. > But who is getting 30k anyways? If that is the stipend of one grad student, you need to double it to get the household of two grad students Yeah but then you subtract child care and someone might as well stay home because it's literally costing them money to work.
        benibela 6y ago
        >Typical grad stipends outside of top-5 schools are closer to $20K. I am doing a PhD in Germany and get 54k € The wage is regulated, everyone who has worked full-time at the university for a few years will earn the same. Although most grad students will earn much less, because most only have a part time position, and finish their thesis sooner. In the first year without a full-time position, I was getting 20k € >Yeah but then you subtract child care and someone might as well stay home because it's literally costing them money to work. In Germany, child care costs between nothing and 500€/month depending on the city (e.g. in Hamburg it is free for 30h/week)
ineedasername 6y ago
Only if you're young enough and unattached enough to live off relatively small stipends. For a 35 year old with a family, that's not really an option. Retooling for a career change is very expensive, in time, money, and salary lost when you start on the bottom rung of the ladder.
- Thorrez 6y ago
  I interpreted medymed's comment to mean it's a good time to already be in grad school. If that's the case then you likely don't have a family (for all the reasons you just mentioned). I don't think people are advocating now as a good time to switch from industry to grad school.
  - ineedasername 6y ago
    Correct, no change, not if you already have a job or the ready prospect of getting a new one. But if you were a regional manager overseeing a dozen restaurants in a now bankrupt chain, your job prospects aren't very good, and retraining a long upward hill battle.
- dasudasu 6y ago
  It was never meant to be even close to competitive to a senior-level professional salary. Besides, to be competitive in academia, which is the actual end goal in mind for any student going through a decently ranked PhD program, the target demographic is not someone looking for a career change so late in life, nor would they even be admitted if they had no relevant research experience or potential.
  - ineedasername 6y ago
    You're absolutely right, but it seemed to me the context of the suggestion was that an economic downturn was a good time to go back to school if you were without a job, and that a good PhD program would pay you while you were in it. I was pointing out that such a thing wasn't an option for many people.
DoreenMichele 6y ago
If you can arrange to further your education without incurring new debt, furthering your education is the only way to be unemployed that has a pretty consistent track record of improving your future career and earnings. But ability to arrange to do so without incurring new debt is very much a personal matter and depends on many variables, such as marital status, existing dependents, current debt load, existing health issues, etc.
- throwawaygh 6y ago
  A PhD -- especially in CS -- is not really best understood as "furthering your education" in the traditional sense. It's better understood as a paid apprenticeship in R&D. It's preparation to become either a professor at a university or an independent researcher at an industrial/government research lab. It won't increase your lifetime earnings or job prospects, but it does open up doors to jobs whose primary allure is intellectual freedom rather than material reward. If you don't go one of those two routes after a CS PhD, then a CS PhD has rather high negative expected value except in a few special circumstances (e.g., BS from NoName Branch Cappus to PhD from mit/cmu/stanford. But that's not the typical case for non-immigrants.)
- samstave 6y ago
  >f you can arrange to further your education without incurring new debt How do?
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    Scholarships. Grants. Going to school where college is cheap and/or cost of living is low. Testing out of classes. Taking a job where your employer will pay for your education. Living with relatives while attending school on a pay-as-you-go basis. Different people work this out different ways. The exact details will vary tremendously. I have done all of the above at various times. I have nearly six years of college and only ever took out one student loan for a boot camp style summer program where I completed a year-long certificate program in eight weeks.

If it's a good PhD program then they will pay you to attend. No need to take out loans.

throwawaygh 6y ago

Raising 2 kids on $30K/yr requires loans.

engineer_22 6y ago
Or a lifestyle change. Take your pick.
- throwawaygh 6y ago
  Literal poverty isn't a "lifestyle".
  - barumi 6y ago
    Smart people don't take out loans to finance a lifestyle that's not compatible with their income.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - throwawaygh 6y ago
      ...I think you lost the thread of the conversation, buddy.
  - benibela 6y ago
    Poverty guideline for 2 kids is $26k But who is getting 30k anyways? If that is the stipend of one grad student, you need to double it to get the household of two grad students, and then it is over the median household income. The median income is not poverty
    - throwawaygh 6y ago
      > Poverty guideline for 2 kids is $26k Typical grad stipends outside of top-5 schools are closer to $20K. $30K is damn close to an upper bound. That's what the tippy-top schools pay the top 1% of students. The few schools that go higher -- AFAIK in CS only NYC+Boston+CA -- are in markets where a single bedroom in a shared house runs $1K+/mo. And in that sort of rental market the federal poverty guideline is rote bullshit. $16K is perfectly normal for the vast majority of folks who aren't at top 5 programs in the most in-demand field. > But who is getting 30k anyways? If that is the stipend of one grad student, you need to double it to get the household of two grad students Yeah but then you subtract child care and someone might as well stay home because it's literally costing them money to work.
      - benibela 6y ago
        >Typical grad stipends outside of top-5 schools are closer to $20K. I am doing a PhD in Germany and get 54k € The wage is regulated, everyone who has worked full-time at the university for a few years will earn the same. Although most grad students will earn much less, because most only have a part time position, and finish their thesis sooner. In the first year without a full-time position, I was getting 20k € >Yeah but then you subtract child care and someone might as well stay home because it's literally costing them money to work. In Germany, child care costs between nothing and 500€/month depending on the city (e.g. in Hamburg it is free for 30h/week)

ineedasername 6y ago

Only if you're young enough and unattached enough to live off relatively small stipends. For a 35 year old with a family, that's not really an option. Retooling for a career change is very expensive, in time, money, and salary lost when you start on the bottom rung of the ladder.

Thorrez 6y ago
I interpreted medymed's comment to mean it's a good time to already be in grad school. If that's the case then you likely don't have a family (for all the reasons you just mentioned). I don't think people are advocating now as a good time to switch from industry to grad school.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  Correct, no change, not if you already have a job or the ready prospect of getting a new one. But if you were a regional manager overseeing a dozen restaurants in a now bankrupt chain, your job prospects aren't very good, and retraining a long upward hill battle.
dasudasu 6y ago
It was never meant to be even close to competitive to a senior-level professional salary. Besides, to be competitive in academia, which is the actual end goal in mind for any student going through a decently ranked PhD program, the target demographic is not someone looking for a career change so late in life, nor would they even be admitted if they had no relevant research experience or potential.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  You're absolutely right, but it seemed to me the context of the suggestion was that an economic downturn was a good time to go back to school if you were without a job, and that a good PhD program would pay you while you were in it. I was pointing out that such a thing wasn't an option for many people.

DoreenMichele 6y ago

If you can arrange to further your education without incurring new debt, furthering your education is the only way to be unemployed that has a pretty consistent track record of improving your future career and earnings. But ability to arrange to do so without incurring new debt is very much a personal matter and depends on many variables, such as marital status, existing dependents, current debt load, existing health issues, etc.

throwawaygh 6y ago
A PhD -- especially in CS -- is not really best understood as "furthering your education" in the traditional sense. It's better understood as a paid apprenticeship in R&D. It's preparation to become either a professor at a university or an independent researcher at an industrial/government research lab. It won't increase your lifetime earnings or job prospects, but it does open up doors to jobs whose primary allure is intellectual freedom rather than material reward. If you don't go one of those two routes after a CS PhD, then a CS PhD has rather high negative expected value except in a few special circumstances (e.g., BS from NoName Branch Cappus to PhD from mit/cmu/stanford. But that's not the typical case for non-immigrants.)
samstave 6y ago
>f you can arrange to further your education without incurring new debt How do?
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Scholarships. Grants. Going to school where college is cheap and/or cost of living is low. Testing out of classes. Taking a job where your employer will pay for your education. Living with relatives while attending school on a pay-as-you-go basis. Different people work this out different ways. The exact details will vary tremendously. I have done all of the above at various times. I have nearly six years of college and only ever took out one student loan for a boot camp style summer program where I completed a year-long certificate program in eight weeks.