6 ms·

Discord starts shutting down communities for “misinformation”

21 points by rbecker 6y ago

friendlybus 6y ago
Every step into censoring polite conversation about mundane topics is a step towards tech companies arbitrarily keeping whatever information they deem fit a secret. We could become unable to share information we want and have a legitimate reason to share with remote coworkers simply because tech wants that knowledge to be kept dark. The public vs private dichotomy makes no sense anymore, discord isn't keeping you private from the prying eyes of passerbys and saving you from public embarrasment. 99% of normal people don't care what you say about the price of green beans in your "private" channel. Discord is keeping your information in their databases and silencing you at their tyrannical whim. The dichotomy is having your community and stored knowledge blackholed by tech companies or posting somewhere the people can save what you wrote from exctinction.
- millzlane 6y ago
  Is there any reason that you absolutely have to build a community on their platform? This seems like a perfect reason to start your own tech company.
  - lmm 6y ago
    You need to build somewhere. Many ISPs will make it difficult or impossible to run a server on a home connection.
- Hokusai 6y ago
  > polite conversation about mundane topics Is lying polite? Is lying respectful? Misinformation is not only harmful but also disrespectful towards your audience. So, I agree with you that "polite conversation about mundane topics" should be respected. But it is not what is on discussion here. polite: having or showing behavior that is respectful and considerate of other people.
  - rbecker 6y ago
    Is it lying? Do we have so much faith in Discord that we'd let them judge that even for private communities? For example, would they have labeled claims that the harms of fat are exaggerated due to a conspiracy by the sugar industry [1], as misinformation before 2016? Oh but that was four long years ago. Surely by now all that we think is true, is true, and all that we think is false is false. And surely they will censor with only the best intentions, regardless of their personal politics, or external financial influence. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074/50-years-ago-sugar-industry-quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074...
  - deepnotderp 6y ago
    I agree! There are even some people disrespecting their audience with weird ideas like heliocentrism! The greatest Authority, the church, has already said that's fake news!
    - Vr00m 6y ago
      Yes, the flat earth nonsense is a good example. The idea is from what most people agree is a corrupt reading of religious texts. The people peddling it, dishonestly pretend to be doing science and misrepresent science and the evidence so they can dupe people who are not educated in science enough to understand why it is all wrong. And the problem is, now that they have convinced people that they are being lied to by the rest whole rest of the world, they start to believe anything including misinformation and blatant lies about wearing masks during a pandemic somehow being dangerous and rubbish about 5G harming people. I'm all for free speech but until there is a cost for shouting fire in an auditorium when there is is no fire, private companies have a duty to not be a vector for this misinformation to be propagated on their platforms.
      - deepnotderp 6y ago
        > blatant lies about wearing masks during a pandemic You know, back at the start of the pandemic every health authority from the CDC to the WHO to the surgeon General said that masks were bad. Should private companies have "had a duty" not to allow "misinformation" like pro mask arguments to spread?
- scsilver 6y ago
  Ah the tyranny of a voluntary service. We need the government to force them to be less tyrannical because that form of influence has never been abused to enforce actual tyranny over non voluntarily services. Maybe the free market should hold these companies accountable and we dont have to hand over power.
  - friendlybus 6y ago
    You won't ever know if the company has erased your data. What incentive does a company have to clear a hard drive with your info on it, if you're not paying them? The only way to re-balance the system is via legal fiat. Free market works when the company depends on the customer ("consumer"). As soon as you sign up, most free services don't have a free market incentive anymore to service the customer.
    - scsilver 6y ago
      I think data privacy protection is different than regulating speach and should be handled differently. This is not unlike how we regulate real world forums and doctors managing personal information differently. Cant we have companies self regulate what gets posted on their platform while assuring that they are accountable for not abusing personal information.
      - friendlybus 6y ago
        Not the point I'm making. Data "privacy protection" is carte blanche for a data holder to blackhole knowledge, against the user's will if desired. Regulating speech is a dying game either way. The people who profit from disruptive language need something to endlessly debate while the quietly agree on the outcome ahead of time. Disruptive language is fuel to their fire. >Cant we have companies self regulate what gets posted on their platform while assuring that they are accountable for not abusing personal information. You tell me, you're making a massive demand on a whim.
        scsilver 6y ago

21 points by rbecker 6y ago

Every step into censoring polite conversation about mundane topics is a step towards tech companies arbitrarily keeping whatever information they deem fit a secret. We could become unable to share information we want and have a legitimate reason to share with remote coworkers simply because tech wants that knowledge to be kept dark. The public vs private dichotomy makes no sense anymore, discord isn't keeping you private from the prying eyes of passerbys and saving you from public embarrasment. 99% of normal people don't care what you say about the price of green beans in your "private" channel. Discord is keeping your information in their databases and silencing you at their tyrannical whim. The dichotomy is having your community and stored knowledge blackholed by tech companies or posting somewhere the people can save what you wrote from exctinction.

millzlane 6y ago
Is there any reason that you absolutely have to build a community on their platform? This seems like a perfect reason to start your own tech company.
- lmm 6y ago
  You need to build somewhere. Many ISPs will make it difficult or impossible to run a server on a home connection.
Hokusai 6y ago
> polite conversation about mundane topics Is lying polite? Is lying respectful? Misinformation is not only harmful but also disrespectful towards your audience. So, I agree with you that "polite conversation about mundane topics" should be respected. But it is not what is on discussion here. polite: having or showing behavior that is respectful and considerate of other people.
- rbecker 6y ago
  Is it lying? Do we have so much faith in Discord that we'd let them judge that even for private communities? For example, would they have labeled claims that the harms of fat are exaggerated due to a conspiracy by the sugar industry [1], as misinformation before 2016? Oh but that was four long years ago. Surely by now all that we think is true, is true, and all that we think is false is false. And surely they will censor with only the best intentions, regardless of their personal politics, or external financial influence. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074/50-years-ago-sugar-industry-quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074...
- deepnotderp 6y ago
  I agree! There are even some people disrespecting their audience with weird ideas like heliocentrism! The greatest Authority, the church, has already said that's fake news!
  - Vr00m 6y ago
    Yes, the flat earth nonsense is a good example. The idea is from what most people agree is a corrupt reading of religious texts. The people peddling it, dishonestly pretend to be doing science and misrepresent science and the evidence so they can dupe people who are not educated in science enough to understand why it is all wrong. And the problem is, now that they have convinced people that they are being lied to by the rest whole rest of the world, they start to believe anything including misinformation and blatant lies about wearing masks during a pandemic somehow being dangerous and rubbish about 5G harming people. I'm all for free speech but until there is a cost for shouting fire in an auditorium when there is is no fire, private companies have a duty to not be a vector for this misinformation to be propagated on their platforms.
    - deepnotderp 6y ago
      > blatant lies about wearing masks during a pandemic You know, back at the start of the pandemic every health authority from the CDC to the WHO to the surgeon General said that masks were bad. Should private companies have "had a duty" not to allow "misinformation" like pro mask arguments to spread?
scsilver 6y ago
Ah the tyranny of a voluntary service. We need the government to force them to be less tyrannical because that form of influence has never been abused to enforce actual tyranny over non voluntarily services. Maybe the free market should hold these companies accountable and we dont have to hand over power.
- friendlybus 6y ago
  You won't ever know if the company has erased your data. What incentive does a company have to clear a hard drive with your info on it, if you're not paying them? The only way to re-balance the system is via legal fiat. Free market works when the company depends on the customer ("consumer"). As soon as you sign up, most free services don't have a free market incentive anymore to service the customer.
  - scsilver 6y ago
    I think data privacy protection is different than regulating speach and should be handled differently. This is not unlike how we regulate real world forums and doctors managing personal information differently. Cant we have companies self regulate what gets posted on their platform while assuring that they are accountable for not abusing personal information.
    - friendlybus 6y ago
      Not the point I'm making. Data "privacy protection" is carte blanche for a data holder to blackhole knowledge, against the user's will if desired. Regulating speech is a dying game either way. The people who profit from disruptive language need something to endlessly debate while the quietly agree on the outcome ahead of time. Disruptive language is fuel to their fire. >Cant we have companies self regulate what gets posted on their platform while assuring that they are accountable for not abusing personal information. You tell me, you're making a massive demand on a whim.
      - scsilver 6y ago