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>As a businessperson, I have the legal right to be a complete jerk to my customers You're still not getting the point - which is you're not the customer Apple

by Rury 6y ago

>As a businessperson, I have the legal right to be a complete jerk to my customers You're still not getting the point - which is you're not the customer Apple is trying to sell to - just as Mercedes isn't trying to cater to people who want ice cream. >Apple has choices, legally. My problem is that they keep making the wrong choices. This is your opinion. The world does not revolve around you. Do you honestly expect in a relationship that your spouse always revolves around your terms - and only your terms - and will not have terms of their own? Is it not fair Apple has their own terms? They don't want to be abused by their customers anymore than you do from them. Apple has always made it obvious who they're customer is. That is someone that doesn't know anything about computers and wants email and stuff to work without problems as time goes on - so Apple to makes sure they hold the rights to update and secure things to ensure that product works for these customers. Again, you are not the customer apple is trying to cater to. Steve Jobs himself never wanted to sell "computers which only nerds could use". He wanted to sell "an appliance which anyone's grandmother could use". Super customizability that you want was never their product! Don't buy it and then complain they're being a jerk when they stated what their terms were...

_qulr 6y ago
> You're still not getting the point - which is you're not the customer Apple is trying to sell to Funny how they keep sending me marketing emails though. This is kind of a weird notion, that Apple doesn't want me as a customer, as I've spent more $ on Apple products in my life than the majority of people. > This is your opinion. Does this really need to be said? Of course it is! Why would I state someone else's opinion? > Steve Jobs himself never wanted to sell "computers which only nerds could use". This is a straw man argument. I already mentioned that I preferred Apple under Steve Jobs to Apple under Tim Cook. They're not the same. Jobs said, "the computer is the most remarkable tool that we’ve ever come up with. It’s the equivalent of a bicycle for our minds." For Tim Cook, though, computers seem more like a bike lock for the mind. > Super customizability that you want was never their product! Again, I'm comparing Macs today to Macs literally only 10 years ago. Those products existed. It's historical revisionism to claim that current Apple is exactly the same as past Apple. It's not. Not at all. The strangest thing about the argument "this is the way Apple has always been" is that the linked article of this HN post is talking about a new change that hasn't even shipped yet but exists in the Big Sur beta. It's a completely novel macOS behavior, not the way the Mac has ever behaved, so it's just bizarre to argue in this case "that's just the way Apple has always been". Apple is changing... for the worse IMO.
- Rury 6y ago
  >Funny how they keep sending me marketing emails though. >This is kind of a weird notion, that Apple doesn't want me as a customer, as I've spent more $ on Apple products in my life than the majority of people. Maybe that's because Apple is a company and you're 1 in a million? You bought their product so presumably maybe you're interested in what their products are? That you're one of their customers their trying to cater to (when you're actually not)? >Does this really need to be said? Of course it is! Why would I state someone else's opinion? Great we established it's an opinion, and not a fact! >This is a straw man argument. I already mentioned that I preferred Apple under Steve Jobs to Apple under Tim Cook. They're not the same. Jobs said, "the computer is the most remarkable tool that we’ve ever come up with. It’s the equivalent of a bicycle for our minds." For Tim Cook, though, computers seem more like a bike lock for the mind. It's not a straw-man unless you want to have a separate argument over what Steve said / didn't say. >Again, I'm comparing Macs today to Macs literally only 10 years ago. Those products existed. It's historical revisionism to claim that current Apple is exactly the same as past Apple. It's not. Not at all. So what if they're different today? They've outlined what their products & terms are today just as they had in the past. How are they being a jerk when you can freely agree to or walk away from them?
jtbayly 6y ago
> Apple has always made it obvious who they're customer is. That is someone that doesn't know anything about computers What!?!? No. Definitely not correct. They might be doing that now, but if so that change is precisely the complaint at some level. I used to buy Apple computers precisely because I did understand computers, but now I buy them in spite of that.
- Rury 6y ago
  >I used to buy Apple computers precisely because I did understand computers Maybe because computers were always complicated and messy to use - so someone who understands computers would appreciate a 'friendly to use' computer? My Dad is the same. Steve Jobs anyhow, always wanted to make the computer as user friendly as possible, so that anyone should be able to use them - not just some super skilled tech person (which is what I meant in my above post). Hell, Steve even hated the concept of a multi-button mouse... deeming it as something unnecessary if the UI was simple enough.
- GlennS 6y ago
  You seem shocked, but this was my understanding too. An Apple is the computer you buy for your parents or grandparents.

by Rury 6y ago

_qulr 6y ago

> You're still not getting the point - which is you're not the customer Apple is trying to sell to Funny how they keep sending me marketing emails though. This is kind of a weird notion, that Apple doesn't want me as a customer, as I've spent more $ on Apple products in my life than the majority of people. > This is your opinion. Does this really need to be said? Of course it is! Why would I state someone else's opinion? > Steve Jobs himself never wanted to sell "computers which only nerds could use". This is a straw man argument. I already mentioned that I preferred Apple under Steve Jobs to Apple under Tim Cook. They're not the same. Jobs said, "the computer is the most remarkable tool that we’ve ever come up with. It’s the equivalent of a bicycle for our minds." For Tim Cook, though, computers seem more like a bike lock for the mind. > Super customizability that you want was never their product! Again, I'm comparing Macs today to Macs literally only 10 years ago. Those products existed. It's historical revisionism to claim that current Apple is exactly the same as past Apple. It's not. Not at all. The strangest thing about the argument "this is the way Apple has always been" is that the linked article of this HN post is talking about a new change that hasn't even shipped yet but exists in the Big Sur beta. It's a completely novel macOS behavior, not the way the Mac has ever behaved, so it's just bizarre to argue in this case "that's just the way Apple has always been". Apple is changing... for the worse IMO.

Rury 6y ago
>Funny how they keep sending me marketing emails though. >This is kind of a weird notion, that Apple doesn't want me as a customer, as I've spent more $ on Apple products in my life than the majority of people. Maybe that's because Apple is a company and you're 1 in a million? You bought their product so presumably maybe you're interested in what their products are? That you're one of their customers their trying to cater to (when you're actually not)? >Does this really need to be said? Of course it is! Why would I state someone else's opinion? Great we established it's an opinion, and not a fact! >This is a straw man argument. I already mentioned that I preferred Apple under Steve Jobs to Apple under Tim Cook. They're not the same. Jobs said, "the computer is the most remarkable tool that we’ve ever come up with. It’s the equivalent of a bicycle for our minds." For Tim Cook, though, computers seem more like a bike lock for the mind. It's not a straw-man unless you want to have a separate argument over what Steve said / didn't say. >Again, I'm comparing Macs today to Macs literally only 10 years ago. Those products existed. It's historical revisionism to claim that current Apple is exactly the same as past Apple. It's not. Not at all. So what if they're different today? They've outlined what their products & terms are today just as they had in the past. How are they being a jerk when you can freely agree to or walk away from them?

jtbayly 6y ago

> Apple has always made it obvious who they're customer is. That is someone that doesn't know anything about computers What!?!? No. Definitely not correct. They might be doing that now, but if so that change is precisely the complaint at some level. I used to buy Apple computers precisely because I did understand computers, but now I buy them in spite of that.

Rury 6y ago
>I used to buy Apple computers precisely because I did understand computers Maybe because computers were always complicated and messy to use - so someone who understands computers would appreciate a 'friendly to use' computer? My Dad is the same. Steve Jobs anyhow, always wanted to make the computer as user friendly as possible, so that anyone should be able to use them - not just some super skilled tech person (which is what I meant in my above post). Hell, Steve even hated the concept of a multi-button mouse... deeming it as something unnecessary if the UI was simple enough.
GlennS 6y ago
You seem shocked, but this was my understanding too. An Apple is the computer you buy for your parents or grandparents.