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Rust core team promotes Linux on 64-bit Arm to Tier-1 supported platform status

138 points by fork-bomber 6y ago

fork-bomber 6y ago
This is the only other Tier-1 platform apart from Linux on Intel x86-64. Given Arm Linux’S astonishingly wide adoption, this bodes well for Rust.
- Ar-Curunir 6y ago
  Uh both MacOS and Windows have tier-1 support on x86-64
  - GolDDranks 6y ago
    Maybe what they meant was to say just about the hardware arch support...
    - PrinceKropotkin 6y ago
      What is there to talk about? If it boots it supports. There's inline assembly for the stuff the OS refuses to acknowledge. Are you running into an issue with the cpu-supported bits of addressing? Get a better cpu! Anyway, x86-64 is certainly the most installed desktop arch. I don't know a single project aside from inferno os that prioritizes i686 over x86-64. If I could downvote you, I certainly would. Your comment and the parent comments are baseless and incompetent at providing any value to the forum.
    - fork-bomber 6y ago
      I stand corrected: AArch64 is the only other architecture apart from x86_64 to have a target platform that is a Tier-1 target platform. Attaining this ‘badge’ is significant for Rust’s future though in a world where AArch64 Linux is astonishingly predominant especially in areas where Rust’s safety properties are a good fit.
      - mlindner 6y ago
        And just some clarification. This is only the first ARM Arch to get promoted to Tier-1. The idea is to first get this one to Tier-1 as it's the most obvious to do, and other ARM platforms will follow shortly. For example Apple ARM Archs I expect to soon follow.
        fork-bomber 6y ago
        Absolutely! One of the key goals I had in the RFC proposal was to effectively pipeclean the path for other non-x86_64 archs, not just AArch64. For AArch64, you are absolutely right, there's a lot of useful targets already ascending the Tiers, aiming to get to Tier-1. All this will help AArch64 in particular to ge the top-class CI focus that the Rust community has built. Bodes very well for safety and security sensitive ecosystems, IMO.
- hyperpape 6y ago
  Can you elaborate? I don’t know much about Rust’s tiers of support, so I googled and found https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/rustc/platform-support.html https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/rustc/platform-support.htm..., and it has a larger list. Is that something different?
GolDDranks 6y ago
Actually, not the core team, as the core team doesn't do decisions like this. This was decided jointly by the compiler, infra and release teams.
- PrinceKropotkin 6y ago
  Oh there are teams?
- fork-bomber 6y ago
  You're right! The core team helped set the context and begin the process of understanding what Tiers meant and what the gaps were for AArch64 Linux. Ultimately the approvals had to come from those 3 teams. I was particularly pleased with how well structured the process was!
CameronNemo 6y ago
Meanwhile Intel profits are sinking, Ryzen is thriving, and RISC-V is chugging along.
jph 6y ago
Awesome! This is superb news for a wide range of usages, such as AArch64 based Linux systems, Raspberry Pi hardware, Apple silicon, and more.
Galanwe 6y ago
Yeah great, that makes Rust look like a good embedded language. What about AVR though? I have been following the rust-avr fork for litterally years now, and it just got merged. It's still highly unreliable though, and Harvard architecture related bugs can make you pull your hairs. If the rust community is going to promote embedded rust, it would be good to invest some effort in a wider spectrum of architectures. The language itself should be mature enough to take a break. Expanding the architecture range would be very welcome by a lot of people.
- steveklabnik 6y ago
  Effort is not fungible, we are an open source project, not a business. We can only do what we can convince people to spend their time doing. The folks who work on the language just aren’t the same people who would implement a new LLVM backend. We would love mature Rust support on as many platforms as possible, but it’s non-trivial. In this case, ARM stepped up themselves to help make this happen. If other vendors want to help us make Rust great on their platform, we’d love to have their support.
- mlindner 6y ago
  I'm quite sure they'd be happy to have you submit patches to add better support.
prudhvis 6y ago
I hope that some day ppc64{le,be} get there soon. Would love to use openpower based completly open systems. Atleast for the time-being only OpenPower matches or beats the performance profiles of x86_64.
- PrinceKropotkin 6y ago
  What's the typical profile of a power user these days?

138 points by fork-bomber 6y ago

This is the only other Tier-1 platform apart from Linux on Intel x86-64. Given Arm Linux’S astonishingly wide adoption, this bodes well for Rust.

Ar-Curunir 6y ago
Uh both MacOS and Windows have tier-1 support on x86-64
- GolDDranks 6y ago
  Maybe what they meant was to say just about the hardware arch support...
  - PrinceKropotkin 6y ago
    What is there to talk about? If it boots it supports. There's inline assembly for the stuff the OS refuses to acknowledge. Are you running into an issue with the cpu-supported bits of addressing? Get a better cpu! Anyway, x86-64 is certainly the most installed desktop arch. I don't know a single project aside from inferno os that prioritizes i686 over x86-64. If I could downvote you, I certainly would. Your comment and the parent comments are baseless and incompetent at providing any value to the forum.
  - fork-bomber 6y ago
    I stand corrected: AArch64 is the only other architecture apart from x86_64 to have a target platform that is a Tier-1 target platform. Attaining this ‘badge’ is significant for Rust’s future though in a world where AArch64 Linux is astonishingly predominant especially in areas where Rust’s safety properties are a good fit.
    - mlindner 6y ago
      And just some clarification. This is only the first ARM Arch to get promoted to Tier-1. The idea is to first get this one to Tier-1 as it's the most obvious to do, and other ARM platforms will follow shortly. For example Apple ARM Archs I expect to soon follow.
      - fork-bomber 6y ago
        Absolutely! One of the key goals I had in the RFC proposal was to effectively pipeclean the path for other non-x86_64 archs, not just AArch64. For AArch64, you are absolutely right, there's a lot of useful targets already ascending the Tiers, aiming to get to Tier-1. All this will help AArch64 in particular to ge the top-class CI focus that the Rust community has built. Bodes very well for safety and security sensitive ecosystems, IMO.
hyperpape 6y ago
Can you elaborate? I don’t know much about Rust’s tiers of support, so I googled and found https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/rustc/platform-support.html https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/rustc/platform-support.htm..., and it has a larger list. Is that something different?

GolDDranks 6y ago

Actually, not the core team, as the core team doesn't do decisions like this. This was decided jointly by the compiler, infra and release teams.

PrinceKropotkin 6y ago
Oh there are teams?
fork-bomber 6y ago
You're right! The core team helped set the context and begin the process of understanding what Tiers meant and what the gaps were for AArch64 Linux. Ultimately the approvals had to come from those 3 teams. I was particularly pleased with how well structured the process was!

CameronNemo 6y ago

Meanwhile Intel profits are sinking, Ryzen is thriving, and RISC-V is chugging along.

jph 6y ago

Awesome! This is superb news for a wide range of usages, such as AArch64 based Linux systems, Raspberry Pi hardware, Apple silicon, and more.

Galanwe 6y ago

Yeah great, that makes Rust look like a good embedded language. What about AVR though? I have been following the rust-avr fork for litterally years now, and it just got merged. It's still highly unreliable though, and Harvard architecture related bugs can make you pull your hairs. If the rust community is going to promote embedded rust, it would be good to invest some effort in a wider spectrum of architectures. The language itself should be mature enough to take a break. Expanding the architecture range would be very welcome by a lot of people.

steveklabnik 6y ago
Effort is not fungible, we are an open source project, not a business. We can only do what we can convince people to spend their time doing. The folks who work on the language just aren’t the same people who would implement a new LLVM backend. We would love mature Rust support on as many platforms as possible, but it’s non-trivial. In this case, ARM stepped up themselves to help make this happen. If other vendors want to help us make Rust great on their platform, we’d love to have their support.
mlindner 6y ago
I'm quite sure they'd be happy to have you submit patches to add better support.

prudhvis 6y ago

I hope that some day ppc64{le,be} get there soon. Would love to use openpower based completly open systems. Atleast for the time-being only OpenPower matches or beats the performance profiles of x86_64.

PrinceKropotkin 6y ago
What's the typical profile of a power user these days?