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Problem there is that it ignores transfer payments. So the people making 2.8% of the national income are really taking home more than that since they (collectiv

by ls612 6y ago

Problem there is that it ignores transfer payments. So the people making 2.8% of the national income are really taking home more than that since they (collectively, not every individual receives all of these) are receiving snap, section 8, tanf, social security/SSI, Medicaid, etc. From a post transfer perspective, America’s tax system is firmly progressive, but less so than European countries. The other side of that is that in America you have the opportunity to do quite well for yourself if you aren’t in one of the aristocratic elite families. That isn’t really the case in many of these European social democracies. Not only is there a safety net below you, but there is also a net above you as well.

mullingitover 6y ago
> So the people making 2.8% of the national income are really taking home more than that since they (collectively, not every individual receives all of these) are receiving snap, section 8, tanf, social security/SSI, Medicaid, etc. It makes sense to look at these payments to the extreme low income brackets as insurance against revolution. People will put up with a lot of misery, but there comes a point where they start getting angry about it, and as a bonus they're well armed in the US.
panopticon 6y ago
> The other side of that is that in America you have the opportunity to do quite well for yourself if you aren’t in one of the aristocratic elite families. That isn’t really the case in many of these European social democracies. Not only is there a safety net below you, but there is also a net above you as well. Hasn't this been thoroughly debunked by economic mobility studies? The US regularly ranks below many European countries by this metric, and the nordic countries tend to dominate in this regard.
- ls612 6y ago
  If you look at quintile based measurements sure. But there’s far less difference between the European quintiles than the American ones. So it’s a misleading measure

by ls612 6y ago

mullingitover 6y ago

> So the people making 2.8% of the national income are really taking home more than that since they (collectively, not every individual receives all of these) are receiving snap, section 8, tanf, social security/SSI, Medicaid, etc. It makes sense to look at these payments to the extreme low income brackets as insurance against revolution. People will put up with a lot of misery, but there comes a point where they start getting angry about it, and as a bonus they're well armed in the US.

panopticon 6y ago

> The other side of that is that in America you have the opportunity to do quite well for yourself if you aren’t in one of the aristocratic elite families. That isn’t really the case in many of these European social democracies. Not only is there a safety net below you, but there is also a net above you as well. Hasn't this been thoroughly debunked by economic mobility studies? The US regularly ranks below many European countries by this metric, and the nordic countries tend to dominate in this regard.

ls612 6y ago
If you look at quintile based measurements sure. But there’s far less difference between the European quintiles than the American ones. So it’s a misleading measure