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The Greatest Country On Earth™ has its citizens flee to the Empire Of Evil™ just so they can speak a simple truth without being imprisoned or called a traitor.

The Greatest Country On Earth™ has its citizens flee to the Empire Of Evil™ just so they can speak a simple truth without being imprisoned or called a traitor. The incompetent bureaucrats in charge of Snowden's prosecution made him a martyr instead. Those people are massive fuckups even at playing bad guys and you trust them to operate an Orwellian surveillance and suppression system? Good luck with that.

duxup 6y ago
I'm not convinced Russia has any allegiance to "the truth" outside of when it intersects what they happen to want to say at the moment. I would consider Russia far more Orwellian than most nations. Comparisons like yours seem to ignore that fact.
- malandrew 6y ago
  You're probably right, but if it takes two orwellian actors exposing the orwellian nature of one another to mitigate how much orwell we experience in the US and russians experience in Russia, I'd consider that a net win for civil liberties in both countries.
  - duxup 6y ago
    I'm VERY wary of granting anyone pretty far down the Orwellian hole any credibility when it comes to the idea that they might help anyone determine the truth / dig another nation out of an Orwellian hole. Straight up I don't think they want that, actually the opposite. Russia really seems to prefer to get close up with other Orwellian nations more than others, they're not there to help ANYONE dig out, rather they'd rather just get friends in place in other nations that are Orwellian themselves.
dang 6y ago
"Please don't fulminate." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Perhaps you don't owe massive fuckups better, but you owe this community better if you're posting here. We're trying for a different sort of conversation.
- classified 6y ago
  I have to confess that I didn't put much energy in filtering this. In the future I will endeavor to exhibit more decorum.
anonAndOn 6y ago
He wasn't planning on Putin's hospitality as he was primarily trying to avoid US airspace but thanks to realpolitik, he has ended up enjoying some level of freedom and not mysteriously jumping from a window.
hnarn 6y ago
> The Greatest Country On Earth™ has its citizens flee to the Empire Of Evil™ I’m not saying the US is white and Russia is black here, but you’re insinuating that there’s some kind of conspiracy to make Russia look bad when they’re in quite a lot of objective measurements really are. I think most people understand that when you’re in Snowden’s situation, you don’t really have the luxury of choice.
0xC0ncord 6y ago
While I don't agree with every way that the case against Snowden was handled, I don't agree with the thought that things would be much different if the two sides were flipped. The general attitude towards Snowden is too black and white in my opinion. Traitors can be heroes, too. They are not mutually exclusive.

duxup 6y ago

I'm not convinced Russia has any allegiance to "the truth" outside of when it intersects what they happen to want to say at the moment. I would consider Russia far more Orwellian than most nations. Comparisons like yours seem to ignore that fact.

malandrew 6y ago
You're probably right, but if it takes two orwellian actors exposing the orwellian nature of one another to mitigate how much orwell we experience in the US and russians experience in Russia, I'd consider that a net win for civil liberties in both countries.
- duxup 6y ago
  I'm VERY wary of granting anyone pretty far down the Orwellian hole any credibility when it comes to the idea that they might help anyone determine the truth / dig another nation out of an Orwellian hole. Straight up I don't think they want that, actually the opposite. Russia really seems to prefer to get close up with other Orwellian nations more than others, they're not there to help ANYONE dig out, rather they'd rather just get friends in place in other nations that are Orwellian themselves.

dang 6y ago

"Please don't fulminate." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Perhaps you don't owe massive fuckups better, but you owe this community better if you're posting here. We're trying for a different sort of conversation.

classified 6y ago
I have to confess that I didn't put much energy in filtering this. In the future I will endeavor to exhibit more decorum.

anonAndOn 6y ago

He wasn't planning on Putin's hospitality as he was primarily trying to avoid US airspace but thanks to realpolitik, he has ended up enjoying some level of freedom and not mysteriously jumping from a window.

hnarn 6y ago

> The Greatest Country On Earth™ has its citizens flee to the Empire Of Evil™ I’m not saying the US is white and Russia is black here, but you’re insinuating that there’s some kind of conspiracy to make Russia look bad when they’re in quite a lot of objective measurements really are. I think most people understand that when you’re in Snowden’s situation, you don’t really have the luxury of choice.

0xC0ncord 6y ago

While I don't agree with every way that the case against Snowden was handled, I don't agree with the thought that things would be much different if the two sides were flipped. The general attitude towards Snowden is too black and white in my opinion. Traitors can be heroes, too. They are not mutually exclusive.