4 ms·

Is it still popular opinion that he seeked asylum in Russia? I feel most people don’t realize that he was on transit to Ecuador when the Russians told him pass

Is it still popular opinion that he seeked asylum in Russia? I feel most people don’t realize that he was on transit to Ecuador when the Russians told him passport had apparently been expired. He never planned to stay there.

agustif 6y ago
Seeing how Ecuador worked out for Assange, Snowden was lucky to end up stranded there.
seppin 6y ago
Yes it's call a "cover story". He visited the Russian consulate in HK (for a birthday party no less) before he left and his main legal advisor was the lawyer from Wikileaks , a Russian intel cutout. All just coincidence I guess.
- dirtnugget 6y ago
  "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"
- aarchi 6y ago
  Do you have a source for this?
  - seppin 6y ago
    5 seconds on Google. This claims says he actually stayed there. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/report-snowden-stayed-at-russian-consulate-while-in-hong-kong/2013/08/26/8237cf9a-0e39-11e3-a2b3-5e107edf9897_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/report-snowden-stayed-a...
    - dirtnugget 6y ago
      This source says explicitly that he was on his way to Ecuador
      - seppin 6y ago
        Either his backup plan for what was likely to happen was to stay in Russia, or his main plan was to do so (with the direct him of Russian intelligence in HK). I don't see a significant difference between the two. He picked his side.
    - dlubarov 6y ago
      Well, it says that Kommersant (Russian newspaper) claims he stayed there. Ben Wizner (advisor to Snowden) denied it -- > Every news organization in the world has been trying to confirm that story. They haven't been able to, because it's false.
- class4behavior 6y ago
  It was a consulate, you genius, and he spent several days there. He must be a moron if he expected that would stay secret. You do realize especially with his situation, he had to cover all legal aspects. Anyone would visit the consulate before traveling to Russia, and he would, too, even if he didn't plan to leave the international zone. Staying Russia wasn't his plan, but it was definitely an option as he must've known that he might get trapped in any country he crossed.
  - seppin 6y ago
    People are (still, amazingly) claiming he just happened to get stranded in Russia. Clearly this was either his backup plan for what most likely would happen, or his actual plan for what he knew would happen (with Russian intel advising him the whole way). Pretty far away from "do people not realize that his passport was taken and he got stuck in the Moscow airport?" Really far.
    - class4behavior 6y ago
      People say that because that's the very likely truth. We know his passport got declared invalid. It's standard procedure. The timeline is also normal as the story was developing quickly once he revealed he was the source. There are a lot of claims that he gave the Chinese intel, so somehow, after they didn't give him any protection, he just immediately gambled on selling info to Russia?
      - seppin 6y ago
        > It's standard procedure. If it's "standard procedure", then he would have fully expected to stay in (be stuck in) the first country he landed at once leaving HK. Like I said, it was planned.
        class4behavior 6y ago
        Ah, yes, the trained master-mind Snowden. It was all a ploy to embarrass the US and hide the fact that Snowden actually collaborated with Russia, which the US for some reason would never even assert.
- buran77 6y ago
  Does it really matter that Snowden received assistance from Russia considering the data he leaked was proven legitimate and even US courts found the program he leaked from as being illegal? You're trying to build a backstory for something using bits and pieces of disparate information when the most plausible explanation is that Snowden was probably well aware that his freedom and likely his life were in danger and sought assistance from wherever he could get it. Building a conspiracy theory on this scaffold is a cop-out. Anyone with enough power to keep Snowden safe is probably an enemy of the US. As for Wikileaks being a Russian tool, would you have the same discrediting opinion about the outlets publishing info that Russia or China would rather keep secret? Or if the person who leaked some data about the Chinese ethnic cleansing program received assistance from the US?
  - seppin 6y ago
    > Does it really matter that Snowden received assistance from Russia considering the data he leaked was proven legitimate and courts even found the program he leaked from as being illegal? One program he leaked was found to be illegal. 98% of what he leaked had nothing to do with domestic surveillance, wasn't illegal, and only was released to hurt US intel efforts and standing in the world. Which is why people view this as a Russian op from the start. I get that you don't care about any of that, but perhaps insist on accuracy when discussing it?
    - buran77 6y ago
      Not that long ago people were running from Russia and doing their best to defect to the US, with any information they could bring with them. I'm sure that if you were alive back then you never once characterized that the same way you do it now with Snowden. If you wanted accuracy you'd have come here with way more than a flimsy story and a conclusion that's pure speculation. But that's what you brought. > people view this as a Russian op "People". Does any of them make a stronger case than you? Or does everyone simply reference "people" to support their conclusions? People also say the onlines are full of trolls and sock-puppet accounts creating narratives. You should be in the streets demanding that the people responsible for that "only one illegal program" be put in prison but here you are arguing that the person who gave them away should be there instead purely because he may or may not be associated with a US enemy.

agustif 6y ago

Seeing how Ecuador worked out for Assange, Snowden was lucky to end up stranded there.

seppin 6y ago

Yes it's call a "cover story". He visited the Russian consulate in HK (for a birthday party no less) before he left and his main legal advisor was the lawyer from Wikileaks , a Russian intel cutout. All just coincidence I guess.

dirtnugget 6y ago
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"
aarchi 6y ago
Do you have a source for this?
- seppin 6y ago
  5 seconds on Google. This claims says he actually stayed there. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/report-snowden-stayed-at-russian-consulate-while-in-hong-kong/2013/08/26/8237cf9a-0e39-11e3-a2b3-5e107edf9897_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/report-snowden-stayed-a...
  - dirtnugget 6y ago
    This source says explicitly that he was on his way to Ecuador
    - seppin 6y ago
      Either his backup plan for what was likely to happen was to stay in Russia, or his main plan was to do so (with the direct him of Russian intelligence in HK). I don't see a significant difference between the two. He picked his side.
  - dlubarov 6y ago
    Well, it says that Kommersant (Russian newspaper) claims he stayed there. Ben Wizner (advisor to Snowden) denied it -- > Every news organization in the world has been trying to confirm that story. They haven't been able to, because it's false.
class4behavior 6y ago
It was a consulate, you genius, and he spent several days there. He must be a moron if he expected that would stay secret. You do realize especially with his situation, he had to cover all legal aspects. Anyone would visit the consulate before traveling to Russia, and he would, too, even if he didn't plan to leave the international zone. Staying Russia wasn't his plan, but it was definitely an option as he must've known that he might get trapped in any country he crossed.
- seppin 6y ago
  People are (still, amazingly) claiming he just happened to get stranded in Russia. Clearly this was either his backup plan for what most likely would happen, or his actual plan for what he knew would happen (with Russian intel advising him the whole way). Pretty far away from "do people not realize that his passport was taken and he got stuck in the Moscow airport?" Really far.
  - class4behavior 6y ago
    People say that because that's the very likely truth. We know his passport got declared invalid. It's standard procedure. The timeline is also normal as the story was developing quickly once he revealed he was the source. There are a lot of claims that he gave the Chinese intel, so somehow, after they didn't give him any protection, he just immediately gambled on selling info to Russia?
    - seppin 6y ago
      > It's standard procedure. If it's "standard procedure", then he would have fully expected to stay in (be stuck in) the first country he landed at once leaving HK. Like I said, it was planned.
      - class4behavior 6y ago
        Ah, yes, the trained master-mind Snowden. It was all a ploy to embarrass the US and hide the fact that Snowden actually collaborated with Russia, which the US for some reason would never even assert.
buran77 6y ago
Does it really matter that Snowden received assistance from Russia considering the data he leaked was proven legitimate and even US courts found the program he leaked from as being illegal? You're trying to build a backstory for something using bits and pieces of disparate information when the most plausible explanation is that Snowden was probably well aware that his freedom and likely his life were in danger and sought assistance from wherever he could get it. Building a conspiracy theory on this scaffold is a cop-out. Anyone with enough power to keep Snowden safe is probably an enemy of the US. As for Wikileaks being a Russian tool, would you have the same discrediting opinion about the outlets publishing info that Russia or China would rather keep secret? Or if the person who leaked some data about the Chinese ethnic cleansing program received assistance from the US?
- seppin 6y ago
  > Does it really matter that Snowden received assistance from Russia considering the data he leaked was proven legitimate and courts even found the program he leaked from as being illegal? One program he leaked was found to be illegal. 98% of what he leaked had nothing to do with domestic surveillance, wasn't illegal, and only was released to hurt US intel efforts and standing in the world. Which is why people view this as a Russian op from the start. I get that you don't care about any of that, but perhaps insist on accuracy when discussing it?
  - buran77 6y ago
    Not that long ago people were running from Russia and doing their best to defect to the US, with any information they could bring with them. I'm sure that if you were alive back then you never once characterized that the same way you do it now with Snowden. If you wanted accuracy you'd have come here with way more than a flimsy story and a conclusion that's pure speculation. But that's what you brought. > people view this as a Russian op "People". Does any of them make a stronger case than you? Or does everyone simply reference "people" to support their conclusions? People also say the onlines are full of trolls and sock-puppet accounts creating narratives. You should be in the streets demanding that the people responsible for that "only one illegal program" be put in prison but here you are arguing that the person who gave them away should be there instead purely because he may or may not be associated with a US enemy.