7 ms·

How is revealing systemic domestic surveillance at zero value in your mind?

by jdc 6y ago

wlesieutre 6y ago
Not to mention this formerly secret mass surveillance program has been making its way through the courts and the Ninth Circuit court of appeals found it to have been illegal, that the NSA has been lying about it for years, and that they were additionally lying when they said it helped convict several terrorist supporters. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-nsa-spying/u-s-court-mass-surveillance-program-exposed-by-snowden-was-illegal-idUSKBN25T3CK https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-nsa-spying/u-s-court-... > Evidence that the NSA was secretly building a vast database of U.S. telephone records - the who, the how, the when, and the where of millions of mobile calls - was the first and arguably the most explosive of the Snowden revelations published by the Guardian newspaper in 2013. > Up until that moment, top intelligence officials publicly insisted the NSA never knowingly collected information on Americans at all. After the program’s exposure, U.S. officials fell back on the argument that the spying had played a crucial role in fighting domestic extremism, citing in particular the case of four San Diego residents who were accused of providing aid to religious fanatics in Somalia. > U.S. officials insisted that the four - Basaaly Saeed Moalin, Ahmed Nasir Taalil Mohamud, Mohamed Mohamud, and Issa Doreh - were convicted in 2013 thanks to the NSA’s telephone record spying, but the Ninth Circuit ruled Wednesday that those claims were “inconsistent with the contents of the classified record.”
- anonAndOn 6y ago
  IIUC, this case would have never been possible without Snowden's evidence that the spying program existed. You can't stop a government program that doesn't exist.
dnautics 6y ago
(playing devil's advocate) you could make the argument that the suspicion that domestic surveillance was at that level was almost as high (if not higher).
- joshstrange 6y ago
  Except that people saying this was happening were labeled as conspiracy theorists by many. This is what people always forget when they pull out the "Yeah but we already knew that" no you didn't, you might have suspected it but there would always be plenty of people ready to shout you down saying "We don't know that for sure", "That has not been confirmed", "Take off your tin-foil hat". I'd wager that the people clutching their pearls now talking about people being put at risk due to the leak are pretty much the same people saying it wasn't happening before the leak.
  - dllthomas 6y ago
    Clinton's "we were already having these discussions" had me tempted to vote for Trump in 2016. Until Trump gave his position on the matter, which managed to be worse.
    - Simulacra 6y ago
      I was going to vote for Trump until he decided Snowden might get a Pardon. That is enough to flip my vote. Say no to treason.

How is revealing systemic domestic surveillance at zero value in your mind?

by jdc 6y ago

How is revealing systemic domestic surveillance at zero value in your mind?

Not to mention this formerly secret mass surveillance program has been making its way through the courts and the Ninth Circuit court of appeals found it to have been illegal, that the NSA has been lying about it for years, and that they were additionally lying when they said it helped convict several terrorist supporters. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-nsa-spying/u-s-court-mass-surveillance-program-exposed-by-snowden-was-illegal-idUSKBN25T3CK https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-nsa-spying/u-s-court-... > Evidence that the NSA was secretly building a vast database of U.S. telephone records - the who, the how, the when, and the where of millions of mobile calls - was the first and arguably the most explosive of the Snowden revelations published by the Guardian newspaper in 2013. > Up until that moment, top intelligence officials publicly insisted the NSA never knowingly collected information on Americans at all. After the program’s exposure, U.S. officials fell back on the argument that the spying had played a crucial role in fighting domestic extremism, citing in particular the case of four San Diego residents who were accused of providing aid to religious fanatics in Somalia. > U.S. officials insisted that the four - Basaaly Saeed Moalin, Ahmed Nasir Taalil Mohamud, Mohamed Mohamud, and Issa Doreh - were convicted in 2013 thanks to the NSA’s telephone record spying, but the Ninth Circuit ruled Wednesday that those claims were “inconsistent with the contents of the classified record.”

anonAndOn 6y ago
IIUC, this case would have never been possible without Snowden's evidence that the spying program existed. You can't stop a government program that doesn't exist.

dnautics 6y ago

(playing devil's advocate) you could make the argument that the suspicion that domestic surveillance was at that level was almost as high (if not higher).

joshstrange 6y ago
Except that people saying this was happening were labeled as conspiracy theorists by many. This is what people always forget when they pull out the "Yeah but we already knew that" no you didn't, you might have suspected it but there would always be plenty of people ready to shout you down saying "We don't know that for sure", "That has not been confirmed", "Take off your tin-foil hat". I'd wager that the people clutching their pearls now talking about people being put at risk due to the leak are pretty much the same people saying it wasn't happening before the leak.
- dllthomas 6y ago
  Clinton's "we were already having these discussions" had me tempted to vote for Trump in 2016. Until Trump gave his position on the matter, which managed to be worse.
  - Simulacra 6y ago
    I was going to vote for Trump until he decided Snowden might get a Pardon. That is enough to flip my vote. Say no to treason.