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Halide Mark II

140 points by jmorgan 6y ago

ebg13 6y ago
Are there meaningful benefits from using Halide for people who don't want to shoot RAW or manipulate their photos in Lightroom? Articles like e.g. https://fstoppers.com/apps/why-you-shouldnt-waste-money-camera-apps-466451 https://fstoppers.com/apps/why-you-shouldnt-waste-money-came... say I shouldn't bother.
- hopfenspergerj 6y ago
  The only real advantage to shooting raw on your phone, is that all the hdr processing tends to flatten out the global contrast between dark and light regions. If you shoot raw, you can get a more natural photo with less processing. Even shooting raw with this app, I just use the auto exposure and auto focus.
- bydo 6y ago
  It gives full manual control, live histograms, and a nice one-handed interface. I'm not sure what you get for free, and obviously whether the upgrade is worth it is up to you, but I bought the full unlock when it first came out and haven't regretted it.
  - hemdawgz 6y ago
    "Full manual control" is somewhat crippled in Mk II (it switches back to Auto every time I switch back cameras) as well as removing the ability to pin ISO down when making use of tap autoexposure (there is no option but to have both exposure length and ISO adjusted now). Manually adjusting exposure length also sometimes leads to it getting "stuck" on long values like 1/2 or 1/1 far longer than Mk I ever did. I get that they think their new Auto mode is better, but in general this was a bug-infested and unwelcome surprise update for my usage of the app (getting maximum quality raw images out of my phone mounted to a small tripod.) None of this would be an issue if I had any way of opting out of this generous "upgrade" I couldn't refuse. UI fit and finish has also degraded significantly from my subjective POV and the large potential scope of future feature updates make me pessimistically assume that the app will continue to fail to be particularly well tested. If the devs are still listening I'd gladly pay (again) just to have the MkI app back, if money is what they want.
- NikolaNovak 6y ago
  Browsing the spec sheet, IF it floats your boat, this feels a useful option: "Halide’s Depth mode lets you capture Portrait mode shots of pets and people — even if Apple’s Camera app can’t. " That feels it makes it more similar to my Samsung where I can choose what to "Live focus" on and create fake depth (although I feel Apple's people-only system allows them to recognize and transition borders better)
- paxswill 6y ago
  That article waves away the manual focus, but for me it’s been very useful to manually focus when shooting through some near obstruction (ex: a fence, or low hanging leaves). There are also still situations where HDR falls a bit short and manual exposure results in a better picture (I have an Xs, so it might be better now).
- wlesieutre 6y ago
  Halide's UI for things like setting exposure is faster for people who want to learn how to use it, versus Apple's stock camera being made for mass markets. And you can set more things, like shutter speed, instead of having it all be automatic. You also get features like a live histogram and focus peaking that can help when shooting even if you aren't going to edit it afterward. Can't try the new version yet because of an update bug, but I like the old version a lot.
- ulfw 6y ago
  None that would warrant paying a subscription for in my mind. Especially considering I've bought Halide 1, which was a one-time purchase.
- sandofsky 6y ago
  Halide developer here. Since we're in the middle of a launch, I don't have time to dig super detailed into that article you posted, but from a quick skim it doesn't appear to be particularly well-researched. All the goodness of the first party camera's deep fusion, etc, is exposed to third-party developers. So if you're using a third party app (that knows what they're doing) then at worst you get the same results as the first party camera. Here are some things off the top of my head that you don't get with the first party camera, excluding RAW: Manual focus, Control over ISO vs duration, Manual white balance, Explicit control over which lens is being used (the first party camera switches without telling you), tell what parts are clipping or hitting your noise floor (histogram, waveform, and zebras), focus loupe and focus peaking that tell you exactly what is in focus (rather than tapping and hoping for the best) a reviewer lets you view the component images that make up the image asset in your library (e.g. depth data on portrait photos)… With MKII, we're now investing in education to help beginning photographers become better. That said, writing this out are just the checkboxes on a spreadsheet of features. It's harder to quantify the value of design. While we think the first party camera is great, it's also tasked with doing many, many things, from videos to panoramas. Halide is designed to only shoot photos. Not even video, just photos. We're aiming to be the absolute best tool to do that one thing.
  - PStamatiou 6y ago
    Well said Ben!
  - wlesieutre 6y ago
    I love Halide but I do wish it could shoot quick videos so I'd stop accidentally opening it and then saying "wait, wrong camera app." As-is I keep Halide on my home screen for pictures, and get to Camera through control center for video. But it's pretty frequent that I forget and tap on Halide thinking I'm going to record a quick video. I'm not even talking about professional quality video, just "I want to record 5 seconds of my cat being cute." But I guess the reservations are partly that if you added basic video capability, people would expect it to be amazing in the same sorts of ways that it is for stills?
  - hemdawgz 6y ago
wlesieutre 6y ago
Great app, but an FYI for previous purchasers - you're supposed to be able to hit "Restore purchase" and get access to the new version without doing the new in-app purchase. It's currently bugged and will lock you out of the app, so hold off on updating.
- moritz64 6y ago
  They fixed it. Just downloaded the bugfixed version and it restored my purchase.
  - wlesieutre 6y ago
    Confirmed, got the update and can get in to the camera now. It sounds like we get one year free? EDIT: I have "Early supporter membership" > All current features available forever. Free updates until Oct 22, 2021.
  - qubex 6y ago
    24 minutes later from EU I downloaded the update and I’m locked out from Restore with a “Purchase Not Found” error.
    - sandofsky 6y ago
      Sorry about the v1 upgrade experience. Sadly, it's hard to predict how long it takes the App Store CDN to propagate. A few years ago we had a launch that took 11 hours(!) before people started seeing it. Luckily we did not hit that snag this time, so hopefully you'll see it in the next few hours.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - pvg 6y ago
        The free upgrade worked for me, but trying to sort out how to actually go back and pay (app + new stuff looked good, no reason not to pay for it) and I have to say, figuring out how to do that (and how to get back to the settings in general) was more than $10 worth of frustration. By my calculations, you now owe me $2.71828 and I was trying to give you money!
mortenjorck 6y ago
Good on the Lux team for making it optional, but this is yet another app that wouldn’t have needed to introduce a subscription model if Apple would just relent on its unbending services push and add a mechanism for paid upgrades to the App Store.
- codezero 6y ago
  I wonder if Apple is pushing this because subscription models potentially provide more long term value? Apple apps tend to need regular updates to stay valid/relevant over long periods of time and early on Apple had a lot of "abandoned" apps in the app store - subscriptions 1) keep the app developer funded/engaged 2) keep the user hooked / showing explicit value or bailing. Fwiw, I agree, I am getting tired of the pervasiveness of subscription models, but I assume they are making good sense business wise.
  - p1necone 6y ago
    Apple shouldn't be forcing 3rd party devs to use any particular business model regardless of how much sense it makes.
- m_eiman 6y ago
  Upgrades should already be possible, using bundles and the Complete My Bundle functionality. It's not terribly user-friendly perhaps, but should (in theory) work. A bit more expanded at http://www.eiman.tv/blog/posts/upgradepricing/index.html http://www.eiman.tv/blog/posts/upgradepricing/index.html - haven't looked at this since 2016 though so perhaps something has changed since then.
  - sandofsky 6y ago
    Halide dev here. We _might_ write more about our upgrade strategy in the future, but we did explore app bundles. There were a number of concerns. For example, many blog posts out there point to the old version of our app in the App Store, and App Store Search is non-deterministic, so it's way less confusing to replace the existing SKU than have folks buy the wrong version.
saagarjha 6y ago
I'm surprised Apple is OK with those "Get it on the App Store" images.
r-r-r 6y ago
Oh I thought this was a new release of https://halide-lang.org/ https://halide-lang.org/ but it's a photography app for iphone. Funny enough, this language is actually useful for optimized image processing pipelines, especially when targeting such "uniform" devices.
- dpzmick 6y ago
  I too was confused by this. Bad naming!
  - skavi 6y ago
    Why? Halides are used to make film. Both products are somewhat related to that.
- perardi 6y ago
  I think Halide is a great name for this app’s target audience: photo nerds. (I know of which I speak. I carry around a Fuji X100F when I walk the dog.) This app ain’t no Snapchat clone so you can give yourself cat eyes and freakishly smooth skin. It trying to suck as much data and control as possible out of the iPhone’s camera system. And for the people who are into that, they get the name.
  - wl 6y ago
    Speaking for myself as a photo nerd, the name annoys me because the app has nothing to do with silver halide. And for my own bona fides, I haul a large format camera out into the world on a regular basis and develop the film in my bathroom.
- sorenjan 6y ago
  That was my first thought as well. Google uses it for their camera app [0], so it's definitely related. [0] https://www.blog.google/products/pixel/pixel-visual-core-image-processing-and-machine-learning-pixel-2/ https://www.blog.google/products/pixel/pixel-visual-core-ima...
AnonHP 6y ago
That was confusing. When I saw the app and that it offers in-app purchases, I thought something minimal would be possible without a purchase. But after downloading and launching it, I see the prompt to buy the subscription or the one time purchase, and nothing more. The app description on the store doesn’t make this — that a purchase must be made to use it — clear either. Edit: An observation I’ve had is that third party camera apps on iOS have a niche audience because they cannot be the default app. If you swipe left on the Lock Screen or tap on the camera icon on the Lock Screen, only Apple’s stock camera will open. I hope Apple adds more app types to have defaults set to third party apps. I know Apple cares about camera launch time and how quickly photos can be taken. There could be a minimum performance threshold set for that. It’s high time!
- iamunr 6y ago
  Such a sad part of iOS. I have several high quality photo apps I prefer, and almost always end up using the default one because its easier to access.
  - skavi 6y ago
    To be fair, Android also doesn’t make third party camera apps accessible while locked.
    - freeone3000 6y ago
      I can bind double-tap on the side key to any app, and my lock screen launcher can have any complication it likes. So, yes?
    - jotux 6y ago
      Just installed a 3rd party app on my pixel 3, made it the default and tried this. Worked just fine and popped up the 3rd party app.
    - comeonseriously 6y ago
      But why bring up Android at all? Halide doesn't work on Android and this entire discussion is about iOS.
ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
Whew! I had a bit of a "PTSD" flash, there. I worked with the Halide language (https://halide-lang.org https://halide-lang.org). It was...interesting. It sounds like an excellent app, and I wish you the best!
post_break 6y ago
I wish trials didn't require me signing up for a subscription. I have a bad habit of doing a trial and then life happens and suddenly I'm charged for something I forgot to cancel and can't get a refund. I might give this a go for a trial but I'm always so hesitant.
- hinkley 6y ago
  That dark pattern is so old it has whiskers. Subscriptions of this sort are done that way on purpose, because lots of people forget to cancel. And if you have to call a human to do the cancellation, well, that's the beauty of doing an ad campaign. Most of the people who need to cancel will try to do it at the last minute and find out that the phone lines are tied up with other people who signed up on the same couple of days they did.
  - chipotle_coyote 6y ago
    The App Store definitely has its capital-I Issues, but the way it handles subscriptions really isn't one of them -- you can cancel online with no hassle, and you're sent an email reminder before you're charged or your subscription renews. (This is at least true with annual subscriptions; I don't know about monthly offhand.) And you can always check what you're subscribed to, when things will renew, and for how much.
- kall 6y ago
  FYI you can go into the subscription settings on the app store right after starting the trial and cancel it. It will still run for the same duration and it‘s easy to resubscribe again when the trial runs out.
ericlewis 6y ago
I bought Halide quite literally last night and this sucks. The app I just paid $20 for now wants me to pay $29, again. Or pay monthly till I die. Requesting a refund.
- pzumk 6y ago
  Existing users are getting MKII for free for one year
- bmarquez 6y ago
  It's yearly, not monthly. But I'm also confused about the pricing model. What is the benefit of buying the $9.99 subscription if the $29.99 purchase covers everything (or does it?), and you keep the app for more than 3 years?
- jvzr 6y ago
  You bought it while its price was temporarily inflated before the launch of Mk II. This was a move to push users to wait. You should probably ask for a refund then get it again
- sandofsky 6y ago
  Sorry. You should have gotten the upgrade for free. There was a bug checking the receipt for who qualifies for the free upgrade, due to differences between the App Store's sandbox and production receipts. We rushed out a fix as quickly as possible, and this should now be fixed. If you contact support, we'll make things right.
  - ericlewis 6y ago
    Thanks for the reply, I already submitted my refund request. I may purchase again in the future.
danellis 6y ago
So, what, we're just advertising products on HN now?
- xenihn 6y ago
  To be fair, Halide is pretty great. I found it through HN. I'm surprised Apple didn't buy them yet, since they don't seem to be at risk of being Sherlocked.
- whalesalad 6y ago
  It happens all the time. What's the problem? The community decides with little up and down arrows if they like it.
bmarquez 6y ago
Instant RAW is a fascinating feature. If you normally shoot RAW, they'll be a bit "flat" since no post-processing is done, but Halide will post-process them to make them similar to jpg output (while retaining the editing flexibility that RAW gives). What I can't figure out...are the Instant RAW settings baked into the file as it is captured? Basically, if I open up a Halide RAW in Lightroom or DXO, will they be able to see the edits?
- jvzr 6y ago
  DNG are capable of embedding processing settings. I believe Halide is using DNG. I'm sure Ben will have more to say
  - sandofsky 6y ago
    Yup. We save DNGs, but aside from attaching your geo tag (if you have it enabled), we don't touch the DNG at all. DNGs support XMP, which is an XML based way of describing edits. However, we're doing post processing that can't really be described in XMP. We're launching Instant RAW as an MVP to see how people use it, so to that end we've only focused on "I want amazing details from RAW but I have no idea how to use Lightroom. Just let me share it on Instagram." For now.
    - mattalbie 6y ago
      Even someone like me, a VFX professional who does a lot of RAW processing, dealing with RAW is sometimes such a chore. There are plenty of times where I want to use Halide and I want to shoot RAW but I also want to easily share a photo (without going through the laborious processing thing). So I'm really looking forward to that. I'm curious in what way you believe your processing pipeline for "getting to jpg" (RAW -> Instant Raw Processing -> JPEG) is superior to Apple's (capture -> Apple's Processing -> JPEG). Does it just come down to different aesthetic preferences and one-frame-per-image? Or is there something else to it? Also, love the XDR Analysis. So cool.
    - fermentation 6y ago
      I'm a little confused as to the use case here. If I want to post a photo on the internet without knowledge of how to perform color processing, instant RAW is basically an alternative to however Apple would normally process images in their own camera app right?
cynix 6y ago
As a v1 user, I’m confused about the payment options. From reading the blog post, it seems a new user could choose to either pay once for lifetime access, or pay yearly. However, since I’ve been given the upgrade and 1 year of membership for free, I don’t see the lifetime option. Presumably the discounted lifetime price will no longer be available by the time my 1 year runs out. How can I lock in the discounted price now?
Borlands 6y ago
Quite surprised when opened the app, download with in-app purchases to find out a paywall - it’s unusable without buying sorry to ask, but inflating downloads number this way? Can’t find a good reason... The app looks great btw
deadmutex 6y ago
Any chance of this landing for Pixel phones anytime soon? Many people that really care about photo quality on their phones also buy Pixels :).
jeffbee 6y ago
I love Halide on my iPhone. Having a great UI for your camera makes such a big difference. My big camera still takes better images, though. I wish it were possible to use a great interface like Halide but acquire the image from another device. There should be a protocol or something.
chris_st 6y ago
Wow, a free update... much appreciated. I figured that with a new number, it'd be an upgrade. And a loupe! Thanks so much! That was my number one request (that I never made).
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jmenter 6y ago
I was never a fan of the first version of this app, despite being a mobile app developer and a photography nerd. I paid for and tried the initial version (Mark I?) a year or two ago, and, aside from a few manual settings and RAW capture it didn't do a whole lot beyond what the stock photo app did, and Halide's UI was a bit worse to boot. But whatever. Now I re-download Halide (the version I paid for a year or two ago) to see what this new version is all about and I'm presented with a bewildering splash screen, prompting me to subscribe (for what now?) and I do everything I can to not subscribe, and then I'm taken to the permissions screen, and it's asking for camera permissions (totally reasonable), photo library access (ok, but let's hold on for a sec), and location access (no thank you), and I can't get anywhere in the app that I paid for, without granting all three permissions. Having location access a hard requirement for a photo app is just ridiculous. What product owner made this decision? IMO it's completely out of touch and user hostile. Edit: turns out the hard constraint was access to the photo library. Which, how was I to know that? The UI seemed to indicate that I couldn't proceed until all the boxes were checked. Look, I get that this is a specialized app and I understand the complexity and nuance related to app permissions. Which means the app developer has to be super clear about what the requirements are from the start.
- LeoNatan25 6y ago
  Just tested. It let me photograph with the location permission disabled just fine. Maybe you are hitting a bug. I agree about the subscription annoyance. It tells me I have “Free updates until Oct 23 2021” but still bombarded me with “subscribe” on launch! I find this predatory.
  - jmenter 6y ago
    It could be that photo library access was the hard constraint. I wasn't going to allow that until I got to play around with the app. I'll try again and re-assess.
    - LeoNatan25 6y ago
      Yes, it’s library access. Just tested. You can, however, on iOS 14, grant it selective access with no selection, which will basically give it a write-only access.
SMAAART 6y ago
No Android version? Too bad. Is there an Android equivalent/similar app?
- Synaesthesia 6y ago
  My Android phone has just as many options as the Halide app, built in, it's got full manual controls .. a lot of features.
- ayoisaiah 6y ago
  Open camera...but the interface is well not anywhere close to this.
poyu 6y ago
I bought Halide when it first came out. As a photography enthusiast, having trying out the app for a bit, I came to the conclusion that phone photography should be kept as simple as possible. While having advance options is great, the reason I carry a phone and not a camera on that certain occasion is because of its simplicity. I don't want to mess with aperture, exposure or focusing, etc. while on the go. If I wanted to do that I would bring my camera. So, yet I think there will be people who's excited for this kind of app, I see it has no use for me personally. It's a nice app though, and no doubt there will be people enjoying it, but the default iOS app does a good job for what I want.
- hapticmonkey 6y ago
  The only reason I like Halide is because I loathe Apple's noise reduction in their photo processing. Shooting RAW is the only way to avoid it. Every other aspect of computational photography is amazing, but when shooting photos I often intend to print, the photos just look so much nicer without noise reduction in my opinion. Everything close up becomes a smudgy mess.

140 points by jmorgan 6y ago

Are there meaningful benefits from using Halide for people who don't want to shoot RAW or manipulate their photos in Lightroom? Articles like e.g. https://fstoppers.com/apps/why-you-shouldnt-waste-money-camera-apps-466451 https://fstoppers.com/apps/why-you-shouldnt-waste-money-came... say I shouldn't bother.

hopfenspergerj 6y ago
The only real advantage to shooting raw on your phone, is that all the hdr processing tends to flatten out the global contrast between dark and light regions. If you shoot raw, you can get a more natural photo with less processing. Even shooting raw with this app, I just use the auto exposure and auto focus.
bydo 6y ago
It gives full manual control, live histograms, and a nice one-handed interface. I'm not sure what you get for free, and obviously whether the upgrade is worth it is up to you, but I bought the full unlock when it first came out and haven't regretted it.
- hemdawgz 6y ago
  "Full manual control" is somewhat crippled in Mk II (it switches back to Auto every time I switch back cameras) as well as removing the ability to pin ISO down when making use of tap autoexposure (there is no option but to have both exposure length and ISO adjusted now). Manually adjusting exposure length also sometimes leads to it getting "stuck" on long values like 1/2 or 1/1 far longer than Mk I ever did. I get that they think their new Auto mode is better, but in general this was a bug-infested and unwelcome surprise update for my usage of the app (getting maximum quality raw images out of my phone mounted to a small tripod.) None of this would be an issue if I had any way of opting out of this generous "upgrade" I couldn't refuse. UI fit and finish has also degraded significantly from my subjective POV and the large potential scope of future feature updates make me pessimistically assume that the app will continue to fail to be particularly well tested. If the devs are still listening I'd gladly pay (again) just to have the MkI app back, if money is what they want.
NikolaNovak 6y ago
Browsing the spec sheet, IF it floats your boat, this feels a useful option: "Halide’s Depth mode lets you capture Portrait mode shots of pets and people — even if Apple’s Camera app can’t. " That feels it makes it more similar to my Samsung where I can choose what to "Live focus" on and create fake depth (although I feel Apple's people-only system allows them to recognize and transition borders better)
paxswill 6y ago
That article waves away the manual focus, but for me it’s been very useful to manually focus when shooting through some near obstruction (ex: a fence, or low hanging leaves). There are also still situations where HDR falls a bit short and manual exposure results in a better picture (I have an Xs, so it might be better now).
wlesieutre 6y ago
Halide's UI for things like setting exposure is faster for people who want to learn how to use it, versus Apple's stock camera being made for mass markets. And you can set more things, like shutter speed, instead of having it all be automatic. You also get features like a live histogram and focus peaking that can help when shooting even if you aren't going to edit it afterward. Can't try the new version yet because of an update bug, but I like the old version a lot.
ulfw 6y ago
None that would warrant paying a subscription for in my mind. Especially considering I've bought Halide 1, which was a one-time purchase.
sandofsky 6y ago
Halide developer here. Since we're in the middle of a launch, I don't have time to dig super detailed into that article you posted, but from a quick skim it doesn't appear to be particularly well-researched. All the goodness of the first party camera's deep fusion, etc, is exposed to third-party developers. So if you're using a third party app (that knows what they're doing) then at worst you get the same results as the first party camera. Here are some things off the top of my head that you don't get with the first party camera, excluding RAW: Manual focus, Control over ISO vs duration, Manual white balance, Explicit control over which lens is being used (the first party camera switches without telling you), tell what parts are clipping or hitting your noise floor (histogram, waveform, and zebras), focus loupe and focus peaking that tell you exactly what is in focus (rather than tapping and hoping for the best) a reviewer lets you view the component images that make up the image asset in your library (e.g. depth data on portrait photos)… With MKII, we're now investing in education to help beginning photographers become better. That said, writing this out are just the checkboxes on a spreadsheet of features. It's harder to quantify the value of design. While we think the first party camera is great, it's also tasked with doing many, many things, from videos to panoramas. Halide is designed to only shoot photos. Not even video, just photos. We're aiming to be the absolute best tool to do that one thing.
- PStamatiou 6y ago
  Well said Ben!
- wlesieutre 6y ago
  I love Halide but I do wish it could shoot quick videos so I'd stop accidentally opening it and then saying "wait, wrong camera app." As-is I keep Halide on my home screen for pictures, and get to Camera through control center for video. But it's pretty frequent that I forget and tap on Halide thinking I'm going to record a quick video. I'm not even talking about professional quality video, just "I want to record 5 seconds of my cat being cute." But I guess the reservations are partly that if you added basic video capability, people would expect it to be amazing in the same sorts of ways that it is for stills?
- hemdawgz 6y ago

wlesieutre 6y ago

Great app, but an FYI for previous purchasers - you're supposed to be able to hit "Restore purchase" and get access to the new version without doing the new in-app purchase. It's currently bugged and will lock you out of the app, so hold off on updating.

moritz64 6y ago
They fixed it. Just downloaded the bugfixed version and it restored my purchase.
- wlesieutre 6y ago
  Confirmed, got the update and can get in to the camera now. It sounds like we get one year free? EDIT: I have "Early supporter membership" > All current features available forever. Free updates until Oct 22, 2021.
- qubex 6y ago
  24 minutes later from EU I downloaded the update and I’m locked out from Restore with a “Purchase Not Found” error.
  - sandofsky 6y ago
    Sorry about the v1 upgrade experience. Sadly, it's hard to predict how long it takes the App Store CDN to propagate. A few years ago we had a launch that took 11 hours(!) before people started seeing it. Luckily we did not hit that snag this time, so hopefully you'll see it in the next few hours.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - pvg 6y ago
      The free upgrade worked for me, but trying to sort out how to actually go back and pay (app + new stuff looked good, no reason not to pay for it) and I have to say, figuring out how to do that (and how to get back to the settings in general) was more than $10 worth of frustration. By my calculations, you now owe me $2.71828 and I was trying to give you money!

mortenjorck 6y ago

Good on the Lux team for making it optional, but this is yet another app that wouldn’t have needed to introduce a subscription model if Apple would just relent on its unbending services push and add a mechanism for paid upgrades to the App Store.

codezero 6y ago
I wonder if Apple is pushing this because subscription models potentially provide more long term value? Apple apps tend to need regular updates to stay valid/relevant over long periods of time and early on Apple had a lot of "abandoned" apps in the app store - subscriptions 1) keep the app developer funded/engaged 2) keep the user hooked / showing explicit value or bailing. Fwiw, I agree, I am getting tired of the pervasiveness of subscription models, but I assume they are making good sense business wise.
- p1necone 6y ago
  Apple shouldn't be forcing 3rd party devs to use any particular business model regardless of how much sense it makes.
m_eiman 6y ago
Upgrades should already be possible, using bundles and the Complete My Bundle functionality. It's not terribly user-friendly perhaps, but should (in theory) work. A bit more expanded at http://www.eiman.tv/blog/posts/upgradepricing/index.html http://www.eiman.tv/blog/posts/upgradepricing/index.html - haven't looked at this since 2016 though so perhaps something has changed since then.
- sandofsky 6y ago
  Halide dev here. We _might_ write more about our upgrade strategy in the future, but we did explore app bundles. There were a number of concerns. For example, many blog posts out there point to the old version of our app in the App Store, and App Store Search is non-deterministic, so it's way less confusing to replace the existing SKU than have folks buy the wrong version.

saagarjha 6y ago

I'm surprised Apple is OK with those "Get it on the App Store" images.

r-r-r 6y ago

Oh I thought this was a new release of https://halide-lang.org/ https://halide-lang.org/ but it's a photography app for iphone. Funny enough, this language is actually useful for optimized image processing pipelines, especially when targeting such "uniform" devices.

dpzmick 6y ago
I too was confused by this. Bad naming!
- skavi 6y ago
  Why? Halides are used to make film. Both products are somewhat related to that.
perardi 6y ago
I think Halide is a great name for this app’s target audience: photo nerds. (I know of which I speak. I carry around a Fuji X100F when I walk the dog.) This app ain’t no Snapchat clone so you can give yourself cat eyes and freakishly smooth skin. It trying to suck as much data and control as possible out of the iPhone’s camera system. And for the people who are into that, they get the name.
- wl 6y ago
  Speaking for myself as a photo nerd, the name annoys me because the app has nothing to do with silver halide. And for my own bona fides, I haul a large format camera out into the world on a regular basis and develop the film in my bathroom.
sorenjan 6y ago
That was my first thought as well. Google uses it for their camera app [0], so it's definitely related. [0] https://www.blog.google/products/pixel/pixel-visual-core-image-processing-and-machine-learning-pixel-2/ https://www.blog.google/products/pixel/pixel-visual-core-ima...

AnonHP 6y ago

That was confusing. When I saw the app and that it offers in-app purchases, I thought something minimal would be possible without a purchase. But after downloading and launching it, I see the prompt to buy the subscription or the one time purchase, and nothing more. The app description on the store doesn’t make this — that a purchase must be made to use it — clear either. Edit: An observation I’ve had is that third party camera apps on iOS have a niche audience because they cannot be the default app. If you swipe left on the Lock Screen or tap on the camera icon on the Lock Screen, only Apple’s stock camera will open. I hope Apple adds more app types to have defaults set to third party apps. I know Apple cares about camera launch time and how quickly photos can be taken. There could be a minimum performance threshold set for that. It’s high time!

iamunr 6y ago
Such a sad part of iOS. I have several high quality photo apps I prefer, and almost always end up using the default one because its easier to access.
- skavi 6y ago
  To be fair, Android also doesn’t make third party camera apps accessible while locked.
  - freeone3000 6y ago
    I can bind double-tap on the side key to any app, and my lock screen launcher can have any complication it likes. So, yes?
  - jotux 6y ago
    Just installed a 3rd party app on my pixel 3, made it the default and tried this. Worked just fine and popped up the 3rd party app.
  - comeonseriously 6y ago
    But why bring up Android at all? Halide doesn't work on Android and this entire discussion is about iOS.

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago

Whew! I had a bit of a "PTSD" flash, there. I worked with the Halide language (https://halide-lang.org https://halide-lang.org). It was...interesting. It sounds like an excellent app, and I wish you the best!

post_break 6y ago

I wish trials didn't require me signing up for a subscription. I have a bad habit of doing a trial and then life happens and suddenly I'm charged for something I forgot to cancel and can't get a refund. I might give this a go for a trial but I'm always so hesitant.

hinkley 6y ago
That dark pattern is so old it has whiskers. Subscriptions of this sort are done that way on purpose, because lots of people forget to cancel. And if you have to call a human to do the cancellation, well, that's the beauty of doing an ad campaign. Most of the people who need to cancel will try to do it at the last minute and find out that the phone lines are tied up with other people who signed up on the same couple of days they did.
- chipotle_coyote 6y ago
  The App Store definitely has its capital-I Issues, but the way it handles subscriptions really isn't one of them -- you can cancel online with no hassle, and you're sent an email reminder before you're charged or your subscription renews. (This is at least true with annual subscriptions; I don't know about monthly offhand.) And you can always check what you're subscribed to, when things will renew, and for how much.
kall 6y ago
FYI you can go into the subscription settings on the app store right after starting the trial and cancel it. It will still run for the same duration and it‘s easy to resubscribe again when the trial runs out.

ericlewis 6y ago

I bought Halide quite literally last night and this sucks. The app I just paid $20 for now wants me to pay $29, again. Or pay monthly till I die. Requesting a refund.

pzumk 6y ago
Existing users are getting MKII for free for one year
bmarquez 6y ago
It's yearly, not monthly. But I'm also confused about the pricing model. What is the benefit of buying the $9.99 subscription if the $29.99 purchase covers everything (or does it?), and you keep the app for more than 3 years?
jvzr 6y ago
You bought it while its price was temporarily inflated before the launch of Mk II. This was a move to push users to wait. You should probably ask for a refund then get it again
sandofsky 6y ago
Sorry. You should have gotten the upgrade for free. There was a bug checking the receipt for who qualifies for the free upgrade, due to differences between the App Store's sandbox and production receipts. We rushed out a fix as quickly as possible, and this should now be fixed. If you contact support, we'll make things right.
- ericlewis 6y ago
  Thanks for the reply, I already submitted my refund request. I may purchase again in the future.

danellis 6y ago

So, what, we're just advertising products on HN now?

xenihn 6y ago
To be fair, Halide is pretty great. I found it through HN. I'm surprised Apple didn't buy them yet, since they don't seem to be at risk of being Sherlocked.
whalesalad 6y ago
It happens all the time. What's the problem? The community decides with little up and down arrows if they like it.

bmarquez 6y ago

Instant RAW is a fascinating feature. If you normally shoot RAW, they'll be a bit "flat" since no post-processing is done, but Halide will post-process them to make them similar to jpg output (while retaining the editing flexibility that RAW gives). What I can't figure out...are the Instant RAW settings baked into the file as it is captured? Basically, if I open up a Halide RAW in Lightroom or DXO, will they be able to see the edits?

jvzr 6y ago
DNG are capable of embedding processing settings. I believe Halide is using DNG. I'm sure Ben will have more to say
- sandofsky 6y ago
  Yup. We save DNGs, but aside from attaching your geo tag (if you have it enabled), we don't touch the DNG at all. DNGs support XMP, which is an XML based way of describing edits. However, we're doing post processing that can't really be described in XMP. We're launching Instant RAW as an MVP to see how people use it, so to that end we've only focused on "I want amazing details from RAW but I have no idea how to use Lightroom. Just let me share it on Instagram." For now.
  - mattalbie 6y ago
    Even someone like me, a VFX professional who does a lot of RAW processing, dealing with RAW is sometimes such a chore. There are plenty of times where I want to use Halide and I want to shoot RAW but I also want to easily share a photo (without going through the laborious processing thing). So I'm really looking forward to that. I'm curious in what way you believe your processing pipeline for "getting to jpg" (RAW -> Instant Raw Processing -> JPEG) is superior to Apple's (capture -> Apple's Processing -> JPEG). Does it just come down to different aesthetic preferences and one-frame-per-image? Or is there something else to it? Also, love the XDR Analysis. So cool.
  - fermentation 6y ago
    I'm a little confused as to the use case here. If I want to post a photo on the internet without knowledge of how to perform color processing, instant RAW is basically an alternative to however Apple would normally process images in their own camera app right?

cynix 6y ago

As a v1 user, I’m confused about the payment options. From reading the blog post, it seems a new user could choose to either pay once for lifetime access, or pay yearly. However, since I’ve been given the upgrade and 1 year of membership for free, I don’t see the lifetime option. Presumably the discounted lifetime price will no longer be available by the time my 1 year runs out. How can I lock in the discounted price now?

Borlands 6y ago

Quite surprised when opened the app, download with in-app purchases to find out a paywall - it’s unusable without buying sorry to ask, but inflating downloads number this way? Can’t find a good reason... The app looks great btw

deadmutex 6y ago

Any chance of this landing for Pixel phones anytime soon? Many people that really care about photo quality on their phones also buy Pixels :).

jeffbee 6y ago

I love Halide on my iPhone. Having a great UI for your camera makes such a big difference. My big camera still takes better images, though. I wish it were possible to use a great interface like Halide but acquire the image from another device. There should be a protocol or something.

chris_st 6y ago

Wow, a free update... much appreciated. I figured that with a new number, it'd be an upgrade. And a loupe! Thanks so much! That was my number one request (that I never made).

deleted 6y ago

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jmenter 6y ago

I was never a fan of the first version of this app, despite being a mobile app developer and a photography nerd. I paid for and tried the initial version (Mark I?) a year or two ago, and, aside from a few manual settings and RAW capture it didn't do a whole lot beyond what the stock photo app did, and Halide's UI was a bit worse to boot. But whatever. Now I re-download Halide (the version I paid for a year or two ago) to see what this new version is all about and I'm presented with a bewildering splash screen, prompting me to subscribe (for what now?) and I do everything I can to not subscribe, and then I'm taken to the permissions screen, and it's asking for camera permissions (totally reasonable), photo library access (ok, but let's hold on for a sec), and location access (no thank you), and I can't get anywhere in the app that I paid for, without granting all three permissions. Having location access a hard requirement for a photo app is just ridiculous. What product owner made this decision? IMO it's completely out of touch and user hostile. Edit: turns out the hard constraint was access to the photo library. Which, how was I to know that? The UI seemed to indicate that I couldn't proceed until all the boxes were checked. Look, I get that this is a specialized app and I understand the complexity and nuance related to app permissions. Which means the app developer has to be super clear about what the requirements are from the start.

LeoNatan25 6y ago
Just tested. It let me photograph with the location permission disabled just fine. Maybe you are hitting a bug. I agree about the subscription annoyance. It tells me I have “Free updates until Oct 23 2021” but still bombarded me with “subscribe” on launch! I find this predatory.
- jmenter 6y ago
  It could be that photo library access was the hard constraint. I wasn't going to allow that until I got to play around with the app. I'll try again and re-assess.
  - LeoNatan25 6y ago
    Yes, it’s library access. Just tested. You can, however, on iOS 14, grant it selective access with no selection, which will basically give it a write-only access.

SMAAART 6y ago

No Android version? Too bad. Is there an Android equivalent/similar app?

Synaesthesia 6y ago
My Android phone has just as many options as the Halide app, built in, it's got full manual controls .. a lot of features.
ayoisaiah 6y ago
Open camera...but the interface is well not anywhere close to this.

poyu 6y ago

I bought Halide when it first came out. As a photography enthusiast, having trying out the app for a bit, I came to the conclusion that phone photography should be kept as simple as possible. While having advance options is great, the reason I carry a phone and not a camera on that certain occasion is because of its simplicity. I don't want to mess with aperture, exposure or focusing, etc. while on the go. If I wanted to do that I would bring my camera. So, yet I think there will be people who's excited for this kind of app, I see it has no use for me personally. It's a nice app though, and no doubt there will be people enjoying it, but the default iOS app does a good job for what I want.

hapticmonkey 6y ago
The only reason I like Halide is because I loathe Apple's noise reduction in their photo processing. Shooting RAW is the only way to avoid it. Every other aspect of computational photography is amazing, but when shooting photos I often intend to print, the photos just look so much nicer without noise reduction in my opinion. Everything close up becomes a smudgy mess.