3 ms·

The problem with the lockdown is that we cannot know what would’ve happened without it. Now was it too extreme, for too long? Probably. Again we can’t know the

The problem with the lockdown is that we cannot know what would’ve happened without it. Now was it too extreme, for too long? Probably. Again we can’t know the counter factual. I really take issue with the ones complaining about a mask. It’s not curtailing your civil liberties. It’s a matter of etiquette and empathy. If empathy is not enough, then think about it this way... You can be required to wear a mask just like you’re required to wear other clothing. You do not have the freedom to walk around naked, for example.

mberning 6y ago
We can look at countries and states in the US that did bot have lockdowns and mask mandates.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  Yes, and? Would you actually tell us what your point is, rather than making us guess?
jandrewrogers 6y ago
> You can be required to wear a mask just like you’re required to wear other clothing. You do not have the freedom to walk around naked, for example. This depends on where you live. In Seattle, for example, the freedom to walk around naked in public is explicitly recognized as a 1st Amendment right, both in theory and in practice. The question of if the government could force you to wear a specific article of clothing in public places was decided by the courts in the negative many decades ago, and people take advantage of this recognized Constitutional right to wear nothing at all.
- siltpotato 6y ago
  You just made me want to burn every book by Rand and Locke in a glorious flame.
nobody9999 6y ago
>The problem with the lockdown is that we cannot know what would’ve happened without it. Now was it too extreme, for too long? Probably. Again we can’t know the counter factual. Actually, while we can't be precise about the number of deaths that would have occurred from doing nothing, we can use the number of cases as a proxy for that. Since the case fatality rate (CFR) is correlated with the number of cases, it's actually a pretty good proxy. As to whether or not restrictions have been "too extreme" or gone on "too long," I'd say that's a function of the number of cases reported in specific areas. In some places where there has been widespread testing/tracing, lockdowns have been eased when the spread has been significantly reduced. In fact, NY state[0] sets specific case rates (IIRC, >3% rolling average over seven days) in very small and specific geographical areas as a determinant of the need for specific, localized restrictions and increased testing/tracing to limit the spread of the virus. [0] https://forward.ny.gov/ https://forward.ny.gov/
umvi 6y ago
Any reason we shouldn't just make mask use permanently mandatory in public (similar to seatbelts)? Even in times without covid, I'm sure it would reduce a lot of infectious disease transmission (flu, cold, etc). We can further optimize and reduce death counts by making all gatherings permanently remote. If people can't gather, they can't spread disease. We can also further optimize by advocating people have less kids. The smaller the population, the fewer people will die. You can't get sick if you were never born. Had we been doing all these things for the past century, we would have saved many millions of lives by now (well, they all died eventually, but I mean we could have extended lives by millions, maybe even billions of man-years).
- floren 6y ago
  I'm afraid Poe's Law is hitting hard for me on this comment.

mberning 6y ago

We can look at countries and states in the US that did bot have lockdowns and mask mandates.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
AnimalMuppet 6y ago
Yes, and? Would you actually tell us what your point is, rather than making us guess?

jandrewrogers 6y ago

> You can be required to wear a mask just like you’re required to wear other clothing. You do not have the freedom to walk around naked, for example. This depends on where you live. In Seattle, for example, the freedom to walk around naked in public is explicitly recognized as a 1st Amendment right, both in theory and in practice. The question of if the government could force you to wear a specific article of clothing in public places was decided by the courts in the negative many decades ago, and people take advantage of this recognized Constitutional right to wear nothing at all.

siltpotato 6y ago
You just made me want to burn every book by Rand and Locke in a glorious flame.

nobody9999 6y ago

>The problem with the lockdown is that we cannot know what would’ve happened without it. Now was it too extreme, for too long? Probably. Again we can’t know the counter factual. Actually, while we can't be precise about the number of deaths that would have occurred from doing nothing, we can use the number of cases as a proxy for that. Since the case fatality rate (CFR) is correlated with the number of cases, it's actually a pretty good proxy. As to whether or not restrictions have been "too extreme" or gone on "too long," I'd say that's a function of the number of cases reported in specific areas. In some places where there has been widespread testing/tracing, lockdowns have been eased when the spread has been significantly reduced. In fact, NY state[0] sets specific case rates (IIRC, >3% rolling average over seven days) in very small and specific geographical areas as a determinant of the need for specific, localized restrictions and increased testing/tracing to limit the spread of the virus. [0] https://forward.ny.gov/ https://forward.ny.gov/

umvi 6y ago

Any reason we shouldn't just make mask use permanently mandatory in public (similar to seatbelts)? Even in times without covid, I'm sure it would reduce a lot of infectious disease transmission (flu, cold, etc). We can further optimize and reduce death counts by making all gatherings permanently remote. If people can't gather, they can't spread disease. We can also further optimize by advocating people have less kids. The smaller the population, the fewer people will die. You can't get sick if you were never born. Had we been doing all these things for the past century, we would have saved many millions of lives by now (well, they all died eventually, but I mean we could have extended lives by millions, maybe even billions of man-years).

floren 6y ago
I'm afraid Poe's Law is hitting hard for me on this comment.