5 ms·

Stop with the panic. Buses and garbage trucks are fine in your book, I presume? So how is this worse?

by watt 6y ago

nebolo 6y ago
Have you ever seen a bus or garbage truck accelerate 0-60 in 3 seconds?
yaacov 6y ago
Because they’re driven by trained professionals? I’ve never seen a bus or garbage truck run a red light at full speed, drive 50 on a neighborhood street, or do donuts in an intersection. I see cars do those things all the time.
- moftz 6y ago
  Anecdotal but I see buses run really late yellow and even red lights all the time.
ed312 6y ago
Those vehicles are driven by professional drivers. IME busses are extremely respectful to cyclists whereas SUV drivers seem to actively hate anyone not in an SUV.
- fomine3 6y ago
  I drive SUV-ish sub compact car, I like others to ride sedans because it won't block my view (looks like arms race).
kop316 6y ago
So I recently moved into a larger city and have taken to try and bike/walk more. I also live in an area with quite a few stop signs/red lights. It has actually really surprised me ancedotally how many times I see a sports car (mustang, challenger, porsche, etc.) or other type of vehicle with a high acceleration (motorcycle) accelerate in a REALLY short distance. I am talking less than 100 ft/30 m, and possibly as little as 50 ft/15 m. Even more so, it happens on a busy street with a lot of pedestrians or where a lot of folks would bike. On a few occasions the vehicle almost hit another car that was trying to take a turn.
- watt 6y ago
  Yes indeed. And where's the panic? Where's the calls to sports cars from the city center? People get killed on Berlin's Ku'damm on the regular by these maniac drivers. (I am not joking or being sarcastic. Germany treats this as murders, and the drivers are on trial for murder.) In Berlin there's a low-key idea to ban all cars from city center though: https://www.berlin.de/tourismus/infos/verkehr/nachrichten/6331145-4357821-initiative-will-volksentscheid-fuer-auto.html https://www.berlin.de/tourismus/infos/verkehr/nachrichten/63... (Too bad Madrid rolled their progress back...)
  - kop316 6y ago
    > And where's the panic? I don't understand? You were asking how a fast accelerating car is worse than a bus/garbage truck, so I answered your question. It sounds like Berlin is doing the right thing. You can get a sports car if you want, but if you kill someone you should be treated as if you murdered someone.
ben_w 6y ago
I’ve had a bus overtake me with one inch to spare on my right[0] handlebar for the bus while one inch to left[0] handlebar was an uneven wooden fence. Less vehicles means less chances for that to happen. That said, I really hope for self-driving so we can all have whatever and it’s fine, and until then grade-separated cycle lanes are also good — but the danger is there, and I wouldn’t oppose car limits if there was a vote. [0] UK, hence which sides
adrianN 6y ago
There are a lot fewer of them and they provide much more essential services to the city. It would still be better if they didn't share infrastructure with cyclists.
loufe 6y ago
I assume it's the "60 miles per hour (97 kph) in 3 seconds." factor..?
fyfy18 6y ago
Commercial vehicles are not as powerful as you think... The Scania P-series which is often used for garbage trucks in Europe has engines ranging from 200hp to 500hp [0]. Cargo vans like the Fiat Ducato are typically not much more than 100hp. Cars on the other hand... The Mercedes GLE mid-range SUV starts at 245hp, and has options all the way up to 612hp. Why on earth do you need so much power in a family car? [0] https://www.scania.com/uk/en/home/products-and-services/trucks/our-range/new-p-series/performance.html https://www.scania.com/uk/en/home/products-and-services/truc...
- rightbyte 6y ago
  Anything more than 150hp for a non-sports car is just silly. I actually feel that the insane acc that Tesla makes normal for non-sport cars might be a safety hazard. There will probably be many "hits the acc pedal instead of brakes" accidents when they get more common.

Stop with the panic. Buses and garbage trucks are fine in your book, I presume? So how is this worse?

by watt 6y ago

Stop with the panic. Buses and garbage trucks are fine in your book, I presume? So how is this worse?

nebolo 6y ago

Have you ever seen a bus or garbage truck accelerate 0-60 in 3 seconds?

yaacov 6y ago

Because they’re driven by trained professionals? I’ve never seen a bus or garbage truck run a red light at full speed, drive 50 on a neighborhood street, or do donuts in an intersection. I see cars do those things all the time.

moftz 6y ago
Anecdotal but I see buses run really late yellow and even red lights all the time.

ed312 6y ago

Those vehicles are driven by professional drivers. IME busses are extremely respectful to cyclists whereas SUV drivers seem to actively hate anyone not in an SUV.

fomine3 6y ago
I drive SUV-ish sub compact car, I like others to ride sedans because it won't block my view (looks like arms race).

kop316 6y ago

So I recently moved into a larger city and have taken to try and bike/walk more. I also live in an area with quite a few stop signs/red lights. It has actually really surprised me ancedotally how many times I see a sports car (mustang, challenger, porsche, etc.) or other type of vehicle with a high acceleration (motorcycle) accelerate in a REALLY short distance. I am talking less than 100 ft/30 m, and possibly as little as 50 ft/15 m. Even more so, it happens on a busy street with a lot of pedestrians or where a lot of folks would bike. On a few occasions the vehicle almost hit another car that was trying to take a turn.

watt 6y ago
Yes indeed. And where's the panic? Where's the calls to sports cars from the city center? People get killed on Berlin's Ku'damm on the regular by these maniac drivers. (I am not joking or being sarcastic. Germany treats this as murders, and the drivers are on trial for murder.) In Berlin there's a low-key idea to ban all cars from city center though: https://www.berlin.de/tourismus/infos/verkehr/nachrichten/6331145-4357821-initiative-will-volksentscheid-fuer-auto.html https://www.berlin.de/tourismus/infos/verkehr/nachrichten/63... (Too bad Madrid rolled their progress back...)
- kop316 6y ago
  > And where's the panic? I don't understand? You were asking how a fast accelerating car is worse than a bus/garbage truck, so I answered your question. It sounds like Berlin is doing the right thing. You can get a sports car if you want, but if you kill someone you should be treated as if you murdered someone.

ben_w 6y ago

I’ve had a bus overtake me with one inch to spare on my right[0] handlebar for the bus while one inch to left[0] handlebar was an uneven wooden fence. Less vehicles means less chances for that to happen. That said, I really hope for self-driving so we can all have whatever and it’s fine, and until then grade-separated cycle lanes are also good — but the danger is there, and I wouldn’t oppose car limits if there was a vote. [0] UK, hence which sides

adrianN 6y ago

There are a lot fewer of them and they provide much more essential services to the city. It would still be better if they didn't share infrastructure with cyclists.

loufe 6y ago

I assume it's the "60 miles per hour (97 kph) in 3 seconds." factor..?

fyfy18 6y ago

Commercial vehicles are not as powerful as you think... The Scania P-series which is often used for garbage trucks in Europe has engines ranging from 200hp to 500hp [0]. Cargo vans like the Fiat Ducato are typically not much more than 100hp. Cars on the other hand... The Mercedes GLE mid-range SUV starts at 245hp, and has options all the way up to 612hp. Why on earth do you need so much power in a family car? [0] https://www.scania.com/uk/en/home/products-and-services/trucks/our-range/new-p-series/performance.html https://www.scania.com/uk/en/home/products-and-services/truc...

rightbyte 6y ago
Anything more than 150hp for a non-sports car is just silly. I actually feel that the insane acc that Tesla makes normal for non-sport cars might be a safety hazard. There will probably be many "hits the acc pedal instead of brakes" accidents when they get more common.