5 ms·

> The brawny truck can “crab walk” sideways on rough terrain using its four-wheel steering system, and has a “Watts to Freedom” mode that accelerates the truck

> The brawny truck can “crab walk” sideways on rough terrain using its four-wheel steering system, and has a “Watts to Freedom” mode that accelerates the truck to 60 miles per hour (97 kph) in 3 seconds. I am all about electrification but as a cyclist and pedestrian, I really don't want to be around 3000kg vehicles that can accelerate this fast.

l72 6y ago
Agreed! I really feel that it is time for our city centers to put restrictions on the type of vehicles that are allowed on the streets. I imagine this would be based on size, weight, and horsepower (or something similar). Exceptions would only be granted for verifiable business reasons. If you want this truck for cruising in rural areas or on the highway, fine, but don't bring it to the city where there are pedestrians, cyclists, narrow roads, and limited parking.
- watt 6y ago
  Stop with the panic. Buses and garbage trucks are fine in your book, I presume? So how is this worse?
  - nebolo 6y ago
    Have you ever seen a bus or garbage truck accelerate 0-60 in 3 seconds?
  - yaacov 6y ago
    Because they’re driven by trained professionals? I’ve never seen a bus or garbage truck run a red light at full speed, drive 50 on a neighborhood street, or do donuts in an intersection. I see cars do those things all the time.
    - moftz 6y ago
      Anecdotal but I see buses run really late yellow and even red lights all the time.
  - ed312 6y ago
    Those vehicles are driven by professional drivers. IME busses are extremely respectful to cyclists whereas SUV drivers seem to actively hate anyone not in an SUV.
    - fomine3 6y ago
      I drive SUV-ish sub compact car, I like others to ride sedans because it won't block my view (looks like arms race).
  - kop316 6y ago
    So I recently moved into a larger city and have taken to try and bike/walk more. I also live in an area with quite a few stop signs/red lights. It has actually really surprised me ancedotally how many times I see a sports car (mustang, challenger, porsche, etc.) or other type of vehicle with a high acceleration (motorcycle) accelerate in a REALLY short distance. I am talking less than 100 ft/30 m, and possibly as little as 50 ft/15 m. Even more so, it happens on a busy street with a lot of pedestrians or where a lot of folks would bike. On a few occasions the vehicle almost hit another car that was trying to take a turn.
    - watt 6y ago
      Yes indeed. And where's the panic? Where's the calls to sports cars from the city center? People get killed on Berlin's Ku'damm on the regular by these maniac drivers. (I am not joking or being sarcastic. Germany treats this as murders, and the drivers are on trial for murder.) In Berlin there's a low-key idea to ban all cars from city center though: https://www.berlin.de/tourismus/infos/verkehr/nachrichten/6331145-4357821-initiative-will-volksentscheid-fuer-auto.html https://www.berlin.de/tourismus/infos/verkehr/nachrichten/63... (Too bad Madrid rolled their progress back...)
      - kop316 6y ago
        > And where's the panic? I don't understand? You were asking how a fast accelerating car is worse than a bus/garbage truck, so I answered your question. It sounds like Berlin is doing the right thing. You can get a sports car if you want, but if you kill someone you should be treated as if you murdered someone.
  - ben_w 6y ago
    I’ve had a bus overtake me with one inch to spare on my right[0] handlebar for the bus while one inch to left[0] handlebar was an uneven wooden fence. Less vehicles means less chances for that to happen. That said, I really hope for self-driving so we can all have whatever and it’s fine, and until then grade-separated cycle lanes are also good — but the danger is there, and I wouldn’t oppose car limits if there was a vote. [0] UK, hence which sides
  - adrianN 6y ago
    There are a lot fewer of them and they provide much more essential services to the city. It would still be better if they didn't share infrastructure with cyclists.
  - loufe 6y ago
    I assume it's the "60 miles per hour (97 kph) in 3 seconds." factor..?
  - fyfy18 6y ago
    Commercial vehicles are not as powerful as you think... The Scania P-series which is often used for garbage trucks in Europe has engines ranging from 200hp to 500hp [0]. Cargo vans like the Fiat Ducato are typically not much more than 100hp. Cars on the other hand... The Mercedes GLE mid-range SUV starts at 245hp, and has options all the way up to 612hp. Why on earth do you need so much power in a family car? [0] https://www.scania.com/uk/en/home/products-and-services/trucks/our-range/new-p-series/performance.html https://www.scania.com/uk/en/home/products-and-services/truc...
    - rightbyte 6y ago
      Anything more than 150hp for a non-sports car is just silly. I actually feel that the insane acc that Tesla makes normal for non-sport cars might be a safety hazard. There will probably be many "hits the acc pedal instead of brakes" accidents when they get more common.
- InitialLastName 6y ago
  You're not thinking big enough. Our city centers should be putting restrictions on ALL vehicles entering. Exceptions for emergency services, shipping and transit.
olyjohn 6y ago
This is ridiculous. Do you think your weight is significant in comparison to a lighter vehicle? If it was a Tesla hitting you while doing 0-60 in under 3 seconds, do you think you would be less dead?
- ebg13 6y ago
  If it helps, I don't think Teslas should accelerate that quickly either.
- amb23 6y ago
  Acceleration stats aside, SUVs are, statistically, much more likely to kill more people--pedestrians and riders alike--than other types of cars. The increasing popularity of SUVs is one of the main reasons behind the rise in pedestrian deaths in the past decade. Given their bulk, they also cause slower traffic in general. Their popularity is a lose-lose for drivers (and everyone else trying to get around) at the end of the day. I have mixed feelings about this car: on the one hand, it does give me hope that mainstream consumers who are attracted to trucks and SUVs will start to accept EVs as the standard, and the brand cache will accelerate EV adoption overall. It's also a pretty darn cool car; they did a great job with their initial marketing. On the other hand, it's going to suck to drive (or cycle, or walk) alongside people driving these vehicles. We're going to be complaining about selfish Hummer drivers when we see these on the roads again based purely on their behavior as drivers, EV or not. Personally, I'm hoping we start to see a more diverse mix of electric vehicles on the market, including new kinds of micromobility. The Biro (https://biro.nl https://biro.nl) is apparently a very cool car to own among wealthier Europeans. I've heard of a couple electric motorcycle brands that are trying to copy Tesla's playbook as a high end, prestige brand. More efficient delivery vehicles are desperately needed, too. But unfortunately, when other people drive SUVs, it makes it harder for you to drive these other vehicles safely and incentivizes you to drive an SUV, too.
  - therealdrag0 6y ago
    I really dislike that I have a SUV, but TBH I find them WAY more comfortable than sedans. Maybe it'c suz I'm tall, maybe cuz I have tight hamstrings and fragile lower-back. I donno. I'm really itching to get an hybrid/electric SUV, but for hybrid it's hard to swallow spending 10k more for like <10mpg more. The only exception being the new rav4 which would be like 20mpg more AFAICT. I recently started paying my utility company extra for green energy enough to offset my entire carbon footprint, including car and it's like $15 a month, so that's a lot of years of ICE before $10k delta difference is overcome... I never really thought of it until I did this but converting cars seems like a pretty inefficient (per dollar) way of reducing carbon.
kube-system 6y ago
Is acceleration a factor that contributes to injuries to cyclists or pedestrians? Most accidents in city centers are vehicles travelling at relatively slow speeds and drivers who are already at speed, but not paying attention. The amount of energy imparted upon impact to a pedestrian is mostly a factor of momentum and the shape of the vehicle.
- craftinator 6y ago
  As an avid cyclist, I can say that wide vehicles with high acceleration are my bane. When a vehicle is accelerating, the driver is intending to make it move both faster, and farther. It takes the driver time to shift their intent, then time to shift their feet, then time for the vehicle to stop. This is exacerbated by fast acceleration, is that the vehicle will gain both more speed and more distance by the time the driver shifts their intent, and their feet, than slow acceleration vehicles. Also, wide vehicles have a much harder time dealing with pedestrians on bike lines and shoulders. I've been forced off the road so many times by Hummers and their ilk, and almost never by a sedan.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Yes, having a higher speed decreases the amount of time the driver has to react to impending collisions. Even the slowest of passenger vehicles are capable of reaching unsafe speeds for surface streets within a couple of seconds. The majority of pedestrian collisions are due to inattention -- which is almost universally correlative with a lack of driver inputs. Someone looking at their phone is almost never applying 100% throttle. I would bet that your relative difference in experience between different types of vehicles is more of a function of: 1. vehicle size and shape compared to the total available road space 2. differences in driver attitudes as they correlate with the vehicles they choose to drive It is worth noting that the Hummers you find to be particular problematic are some of the slowest vehicles on the road. The average sedan today accelerates faster than any hummer ever made.
exolymph 6y ago
Nobody besides cyclists gives a damn what cyclists want, as is pretty apparent from American roads.
- wmeredith 6y ago
  That’s not my experience in Kansas City. The city has been putting in bike lanes and special intersections everywhere the last couple years. I can count the number of cyclist I’ve ever seen using them on one hand.

l72 6y ago

Agreed! I really feel that it is time for our city centers to put restrictions on the type of vehicles that are allowed on the streets. I imagine this would be based on size, weight, and horsepower (or something similar). Exceptions would only be granted for verifiable business reasons. If you want this truck for cruising in rural areas or on the highway, fine, but don't bring it to the city where there are pedestrians, cyclists, narrow roads, and limited parking.

watt 6y ago
Stop with the panic. Buses and garbage trucks are fine in your book, I presume? So how is this worse?
- nebolo 6y ago
  Have you ever seen a bus or garbage truck accelerate 0-60 in 3 seconds?
- yaacov 6y ago
  Because they’re driven by trained professionals? I’ve never seen a bus or garbage truck run a red light at full speed, drive 50 on a neighborhood street, or do donuts in an intersection. I see cars do those things all the time.
  - moftz 6y ago
    Anecdotal but I see buses run really late yellow and even red lights all the time.
- ed312 6y ago
  Those vehicles are driven by professional drivers. IME busses are extremely respectful to cyclists whereas SUV drivers seem to actively hate anyone not in an SUV.
  - fomine3 6y ago
    I drive SUV-ish sub compact car, I like others to ride sedans because it won't block my view (looks like arms race).
- kop316 6y ago
  So I recently moved into a larger city and have taken to try and bike/walk more. I also live in an area with quite a few stop signs/red lights. It has actually really surprised me ancedotally how many times I see a sports car (mustang, challenger, porsche, etc.) or other type of vehicle with a high acceleration (motorcycle) accelerate in a REALLY short distance. I am talking less than 100 ft/30 m, and possibly as little as 50 ft/15 m. Even more so, it happens on a busy street with a lot of pedestrians or where a lot of folks would bike. On a few occasions the vehicle almost hit another car that was trying to take a turn.
  - watt 6y ago
    Yes indeed. And where's the panic? Where's the calls to sports cars from the city center? People get killed on Berlin's Ku'damm on the regular by these maniac drivers. (I am not joking or being sarcastic. Germany treats this as murders, and the drivers are on trial for murder.) In Berlin there's a low-key idea to ban all cars from city center though: https://www.berlin.de/tourismus/infos/verkehr/nachrichten/6331145-4357821-initiative-will-volksentscheid-fuer-auto.html https://www.berlin.de/tourismus/infos/verkehr/nachrichten/63... (Too bad Madrid rolled their progress back...)
    - kop316 6y ago
      > And where's the panic? I don't understand? You were asking how a fast accelerating car is worse than a bus/garbage truck, so I answered your question. It sounds like Berlin is doing the right thing. You can get a sports car if you want, but if you kill someone you should be treated as if you murdered someone.
- ben_w 6y ago
  I’ve had a bus overtake me with one inch to spare on my right[0] handlebar for the bus while one inch to left[0] handlebar was an uneven wooden fence. Less vehicles means less chances for that to happen. That said, I really hope for self-driving so we can all have whatever and it’s fine, and until then grade-separated cycle lanes are also good — but the danger is there, and I wouldn’t oppose car limits if there was a vote. [0] UK, hence which sides
- adrianN 6y ago
  There are a lot fewer of them and they provide much more essential services to the city. It would still be better if they didn't share infrastructure with cyclists.
- loufe 6y ago
  I assume it's the "60 miles per hour (97 kph) in 3 seconds." factor..?
- fyfy18 6y ago
  Commercial vehicles are not as powerful as you think... The Scania P-series which is often used for garbage trucks in Europe has engines ranging from 200hp to 500hp [0]. Cargo vans like the Fiat Ducato are typically not much more than 100hp. Cars on the other hand... The Mercedes GLE mid-range SUV starts at 245hp, and has options all the way up to 612hp. Why on earth do you need so much power in a family car? [0] https://www.scania.com/uk/en/home/products-and-services/trucks/our-range/new-p-series/performance.html https://www.scania.com/uk/en/home/products-and-services/truc...
  - rightbyte 6y ago
    Anything more than 150hp for a non-sports car is just silly. I actually feel that the insane acc that Tesla makes normal for non-sport cars might be a safety hazard. There will probably be many "hits the acc pedal instead of brakes" accidents when they get more common.
InitialLastName 6y ago
You're not thinking big enough. Our city centers should be putting restrictions on ALL vehicles entering. Exceptions for emergency services, shipping and transit.

olyjohn 6y ago

This is ridiculous. Do you think your weight is significant in comparison to a lighter vehicle? If it was a Tesla hitting you while doing 0-60 in under 3 seconds, do you think you would be less dead?

ebg13 6y ago
If it helps, I don't think Teslas should accelerate that quickly either.
amb23 6y ago
Acceleration stats aside, SUVs are, statistically, much more likely to kill more people--pedestrians and riders alike--than other types of cars. The increasing popularity of SUVs is one of the main reasons behind the rise in pedestrian deaths in the past decade. Given their bulk, they also cause slower traffic in general. Their popularity is a lose-lose for drivers (and everyone else trying to get around) at the end of the day. I have mixed feelings about this car: on the one hand, it does give me hope that mainstream consumers who are attracted to trucks and SUVs will start to accept EVs as the standard, and the brand cache will accelerate EV adoption overall. It's also a pretty darn cool car; they did a great job with their initial marketing. On the other hand, it's going to suck to drive (or cycle, or walk) alongside people driving these vehicles. We're going to be complaining about selfish Hummer drivers when we see these on the roads again based purely on their behavior as drivers, EV or not. Personally, I'm hoping we start to see a more diverse mix of electric vehicles on the market, including new kinds of micromobility. The Biro (https://biro.nl https://biro.nl) is apparently a very cool car to own among wealthier Europeans. I've heard of a couple electric motorcycle brands that are trying to copy Tesla's playbook as a high end, prestige brand. More efficient delivery vehicles are desperately needed, too. But unfortunately, when other people drive SUVs, it makes it harder for you to drive these other vehicles safely and incentivizes you to drive an SUV, too.
- therealdrag0 6y ago
  I really dislike that I have a SUV, but TBH I find them WAY more comfortable than sedans. Maybe it'c suz I'm tall, maybe cuz I have tight hamstrings and fragile lower-back. I donno. I'm really itching to get an hybrid/electric SUV, but for hybrid it's hard to swallow spending 10k more for like <10mpg more. The only exception being the new rav4 which would be like 20mpg more AFAICT. I recently started paying my utility company extra for green energy enough to offset my entire carbon footprint, including car and it's like $15 a month, so that's a lot of years of ICE before $10k delta difference is overcome... I never really thought of it until I did this but converting cars seems like a pretty inefficient (per dollar) way of reducing carbon.

kube-system 6y ago

Is acceleration a factor that contributes to injuries to cyclists or pedestrians? Most accidents in city centers are vehicles travelling at relatively slow speeds and drivers who are already at speed, but not paying attention. The amount of energy imparted upon impact to a pedestrian is mostly a factor of momentum and the shape of the vehicle.

craftinator 6y ago
As an avid cyclist, I can say that wide vehicles with high acceleration are my bane. When a vehicle is accelerating, the driver is intending to make it move both faster, and farther. It takes the driver time to shift their intent, then time to shift their feet, then time for the vehicle to stop. This is exacerbated by fast acceleration, is that the vehicle will gain both more speed and more distance by the time the driver shifts their intent, and their feet, than slow acceleration vehicles. Also, wide vehicles have a much harder time dealing with pedestrians on bike lines and shoulders. I've been forced off the road so many times by Hummers and their ilk, and almost never by a sedan.
- kube-system 6y ago
  Yes, having a higher speed decreases the amount of time the driver has to react to impending collisions. Even the slowest of passenger vehicles are capable of reaching unsafe speeds for surface streets within a couple of seconds. The majority of pedestrian collisions are due to inattention -- which is almost universally correlative with a lack of driver inputs. Someone looking at their phone is almost never applying 100% throttle. I would bet that your relative difference in experience between different types of vehicles is more of a function of: 1. vehicle size and shape compared to the total available road space 2. differences in driver attitudes as they correlate with the vehicles they choose to drive It is worth noting that the Hummers you find to be particular problematic are some of the slowest vehicles on the road. The average sedan today accelerates faster than any hummer ever made.

exolymph 6y ago

Nobody besides cyclists gives a damn what cyclists want, as is pretty apparent from American roads.

wmeredith 6y ago
That’s not my experience in Kansas City. The city has been putting in bike lanes and special intersections everywhere the last couple years. I can count the number of cyclist I’ve ever seen using them on one hand.