4 ms·

I entered this at the end: Emacs is a good text editor and I run it for every text file I read or write. As a text editor however, emacs can never handle thi

I entered this at the end: Emacs is a good text editor and I run it for every text file I read or write. As a text editor however, emacs can never handle things like project-management, software development and testing in the same way as an IDE. Yet, it has all the features of an IDE available in some melpa repository. Unfortunately, one is always forced to configure the editor and tweak it here and there to get maybe 80% of what would be possible. And then your settings break your workflow in *that other project* or for a simple plain file. Emacs should finally acknowledge that projects are a thing and support them out-of-the-box. I would wish for an emacs daemon that considers itself responsible for a single project and manages the language server, version control, compiler and all the other project settings. Whenever I open a file in the scope of that project, the daemon should then configure my emacs instance accordingly to work well in the context of that project.

Jtsummers 6y ago
If it helps, maybe not the solution you want but what I do: I launch a different emacs server for each project I'm working on, and make any modifications necessary there. Usually I only have one project per language open at a time, but suppose I have two lisp projects (unrelated) and don't want a cluttered up set of buffers that all look almost the same (by name, some getting a number appended if they were the second opened). I'll launch a named daemon from inside the project's root directory (emacs --daemon=foo, or with my .zshrc it's just emacsd foo). Then I can access it using emacsclient -s foo (or e -s foo with my .zshrc). If you really want it customized per project you could probably add some logic to your .emacs file or elsewhere that would run custom elisp per server, maybe check to see if the directory it was launched in has a .emacs file and evaluate that.
- testaccount119 6y ago
  > maybe check to see if the directory it was launched in has a .emacs file and evaluate that. Yes, or use .dir-locals.el like civilized ;)
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    For others: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Directory-Variables.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Di... Good to know, I've used file local variables but never thought about directory local variables.
cjauvin 6y ago
I manage all my projects using a constellation of flexible (and hand-picked) tools it offers: magit for versioning, Org for documentation, note taking and time tracking, blacken, isort and prettier wrappers for my code formatting, ivy, counsel and dumb-jump for searching stuff and moving around, and I could go on and on. I understand that Emacs doesn't feel as "modern" as PyCharm or VS Code in a sense, but I don't think the "it's not an IDE" argument holds. It can be (if you want and take the time for it) a very powerful IDE, customized to exactly your needs. It can also be a lot of other things in addition. It's a difficult to classify tool, in a category of its own.
- DoingIsLearning 6y ago
  > and I could go on and on. Please do, I just learned about dumb-jump, any more suggestions of things that worked for you?
  - cjauvin 6y ago
    Some other packages I can't live without: expand-region, git-link, pass, treemacs, vterm.
  - ywei3410 6y ago
    Have you tried Lispy [1] and it's derivatives (Lispyville if you're a vim user)? It single-handedly changed how I felt about Lisp editing. [1] https://github.com/abo-abo/lispy https://github.com/abo-abo/lispy
- BeetleB 6y ago
  The problem is that everyone wants something different in an IDE (and the same person often wants different stuff depending on the language they are programming in). Whatever default Emacs can provide will be suboptimal for most users and cause additional dissatisfaction. People have a more open mind when when they know it doesn't include an IDE and may have to work to get one up and going than if they simply see the default one and think that's the best they'll get with Emacs. To give you an idea, I used Emacs as a programming editor for a decade, and only about 2 weeks ago did I first set it up as some kind of IDE (or rather, I just installed elpy and it did it all for me). I was perfectly happy without using it as an IDE - knowing the constraints that come with it.
pmoriarty 6y ago
"one is always forced to configure the editor and tweak it here and there to get maybe 80% of what would be possible" What specifically do you think is lacking, apart from having a ready-made IDE out-of-the-box in Emacs?
- zests 6y ago
  Specifically, emacs is lacking up to date examples of how to do basic IDE functionality with emacs 27//28 and 2020 versions of packages. I don't think someone can build their own IDE without being an emacs intermediate and/or already immersed in to the emacs community. Can you find me an example of a modern emacs config that creates a barebones python editor that does code completion and isn't significantly slower than jetbrains code completion? Most of what I can find is significantly out of date or just doesn't work. If its not possible or easy to find some barebones skeleton to build off of, I think the editor as a whole is too difficult to be worth using. I tried doom but got something slower than jetbrains that also didn't work. I haven't yet found the time to invest into debugging/retrying. My next attempt will probably be me restarting, spending a few hours reading about how to use/debug packages and also getting something that does not really work. Is this really worth it?
- MikeTheGreat 6y ago
  At one point I was trying to get emacs server to work, so that I wouldn't have to wait a long time for emacs to start (to be fair, part of the problem was that my config file had a pile of stuff in it that I didn't really need). After spending waaay more time on it than I really wanted to I got it working here on MS Windows. Of course, since MS Windows doesn't have emacs daemon processes one needs to keep the emacs window open in order for it to be used to open more files in the future. In other words, I spent a ton of time to set up emacs so that when it's already open new files will be opened in that already running instance. On the one hand it was kinda fun to fiddle with and I was happy when it was done. On the other hand I spent a ton of time getting something to work that most other editors do automatically out of the box. In a way that kinda sums up my experience with emacs - fun to fiddle with, but takes a lot of time to set anything up. That said, org mode is awesome, and like single-handedly keeps me using emacs :)

Jtsummers 6y ago

If it helps, maybe not the solution you want but what I do: I launch a different emacs server for each project I'm working on, and make any modifications necessary there. Usually I only have one project per language open at a time, but suppose I have two lisp projects (unrelated) and don't want a cluttered up set of buffers that all look almost the same (by name, some getting a number appended if they were the second opened). I'll launch a named daemon from inside the project's root directory (emacs --daemon=foo, or with my .zshrc it's just emacsd foo). Then I can access it using emacsclient -s foo (or e -s foo with my .zshrc). If you really want it customized per project you could probably add some logic to your .emacs file or elsewhere that would run custom elisp per server, maybe check to see if the directory it was launched in has a .emacs file and evaluate that.

testaccount119 6y ago
> maybe check to see if the directory it was launched in has a .emacs file and evaluate that. Yes, or use .dir-locals.el like civilized ;)
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  For others: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Directory-Variables.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Di... Good to know, I've used file local variables but never thought about directory local variables.

cjauvin 6y ago

I manage all my projects using a constellation of flexible (and hand-picked) tools it offers: magit for versioning, Org for documentation, note taking and time tracking, blacken, isort and prettier wrappers for my code formatting, ivy, counsel and dumb-jump for searching stuff and moving around, and I could go on and on. I understand that Emacs doesn't feel as "modern" as PyCharm or VS Code in a sense, but I don't think the "it's not an IDE" argument holds. It can be (if you want and take the time for it) a very powerful IDE, customized to exactly your needs. It can also be a lot of other things in addition. It's a difficult to classify tool, in a category of its own.

DoingIsLearning 6y ago
> and I could go on and on. Please do, I just learned about dumb-jump, any more suggestions of things that worked for you?
- cjauvin 6y ago
  Some other packages I can't live without: expand-region, git-link, pass, treemacs, vterm.
- ywei3410 6y ago
  Have you tried Lispy [1] and it's derivatives (Lispyville if you're a vim user)? It single-handedly changed how I felt about Lisp editing. [1] https://github.com/abo-abo/lispy https://github.com/abo-abo/lispy
BeetleB 6y ago
The problem is that everyone wants something different in an IDE (and the same person often wants different stuff depending on the language they are programming in). Whatever default Emacs can provide will be suboptimal for most users and cause additional dissatisfaction. People have a more open mind when when they know it doesn't include an IDE and may have to work to get one up and going than if they simply see the default one and think that's the best they'll get with Emacs. To give you an idea, I used Emacs as a programming editor for a decade, and only about 2 weeks ago did I first set it up as some kind of IDE (or rather, I just installed elpy and it did it all for me). I was perfectly happy without using it as an IDE - knowing the constraints that come with it.

pmoriarty 6y ago

"one is always forced to configure the editor and tweak it here and there to get maybe 80% of what would be possible" What specifically do you think is lacking, apart from having a ready-made IDE out-of-the-box in Emacs?

zests 6y ago
Specifically, emacs is lacking up to date examples of how to do basic IDE functionality with emacs 27//28 and 2020 versions of packages. I don't think someone can build their own IDE without being an emacs intermediate and/or already immersed in to the emacs community. Can you find me an example of a modern emacs config that creates a barebones python editor that does code completion and isn't significantly slower than jetbrains code completion? Most of what I can find is significantly out of date or just doesn't work. If its not possible or easy to find some barebones skeleton to build off of, I think the editor as a whole is too difficult to be worth using. I tried doom but got something slower than jetbrains that also didn't work. I haven't yet found the time to invest into debugging/retrying. My next attempt will probably be me restarting, spending a few hours reading about how to use/debug packages and also getting something that does not really work. Is this really worth it?
MikeTheGreat 6y ago
At one point I was trying to get emacs server to work, so that I wouldn't have to wait a long time for emacs to start (to be fair, part of the problem was that my config file had a pile of stuff in it that I didn't really need). After spending waaay more time on it than I really wanted to I got it working here on MS Windows. Of course, since MS Windows doesn't have emacs daemon processes one needs to keep the emacs window open in order for it to be used to open more files in the future. In other words, I spent a ton of time to set up emacs so that when it's already open new files will be opened in that already running instance. On the one hand it was kinda fun to fiddle with and I was happy when it was done. On the other hand I spent a ton of time getting something to work that most other editors do automatically out of the box. In a way that kinda sums up my experience with emacs - fun to fiddle with, but takes a lot of time to set anything up. That said, org mode is awesome, and like single-handedly keeps me using emacs :)