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> Most of the time, the story isn't about the technology (in the same way that Westerns aren't always about animal husbandry and gun manufacturing), and it's su

> Most of the time, the story isn't about the technology (in the same way that Westerns aren't always about animal husbandry and gun manufacturing), and it's sufficient that you push some buttons, pull a lever and spaceship go brrr. everyone is entitled to define their own categories, but to me a key element of sci-fi is that the science and its implications drive the story as much as the characters. if the science merely enables the story, it's space fantasy.

krapp 6y ago
Would you not consider Babylon 5 to be science fiction simply because they never really explain how the jumpgates work, and the plot isn't specifically about the implications of the discovery of hyperspace and FTL travel on society? The science in that case is necessary to bring the plot elements together and constrain the action under a set of known rules and behaviors regarding hyperspace and related technology, but little of it is explored in detail. It's just there for the same reason that boats have to be there for a story set in the Age of Sail.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  I've never watched babylon 5, so I can't comment too much on it. a common trope in sci-fi is that jumpgates (or something similar) were built by some ancient super-advanced civilization, while the current civilization understands them to the minimum extent necessary to actually use them. this is a good way to sidestep the issue, since any inconsistencies can plausibly be the result of missing knowledge in-universe. as to "whether it's still sci-fi", imo it depends a bit more on the setting. if FTL has already existed for 100+ years, it makes sense for it to be a background detail. on the other hand, if you have a story where FTL was discovered recently and it doesn't profoundly impact the plot, I would consider that to be pretty bad sci-fi. like I said, this is just how I personally categorize things. to me, sci-fi is not just lasers in space. it's a genre where science/technology drives the plot, rather than being made up after the fact to justify the plot you want to have. it can still be sci-fi if the tech is totally implausible from a modern physics perspective; it just needs to be consistent. star wars is usually my go-to example of "not sci-fi". there are no consistent rules for how anything works in-universe. all the technology works in whatever way is necessary to justify the current scene and will likely contradict itself later for a different scene. it's still a very enjoyable franchise, just not what I would consider sci-fi. a show like the expanse is almost the opposite. there's some unrealistic stuff in there, but it's internally consistent. once you nail down what's possible given "the rules" in-universe, the plot almost writes itself.
- garmaine 6y ago
  There is a very sharp distinction drawn between hard science fiction, and the less-particular, broader genre of sci-fi. For the record, Babylon 5 was explicitly designed to be The Lord of the Rings in space. It's fantasy in sci-fi dress-up. Similar things could be said for Star Trek, Star Wars, and other sci-fi staples. Hard science fiction like The Expanse, or most of the collected works of Arthur C Clarke, Alistair Reynolds, Kim Stanley Robinson, and Robert Forward present entirely self-consistent universes set in the future with logical extrapolations of technical capability governed by physical law. Some people don't care for the distinction, but there are also those of us that have very strong preferences for ONLY readying hard science fiction. I like to feel that I learned something, or that the book describes societies that might someday come into being, or alien cultures that might realistically exist.

krapp 6y ago

Would you not consider Babylon 5 to be science fiction simply because they never really explain how the jumpgates work, and the plot isn't specifically about the implications of the discovery of hyperspace and FTL travel on society? The science in that case is necessary to bring the plot elements together and constrain the action under a set of known rules and behaviors regarding hyperspace and related technology, but little of it is explored in detail. It's just there for the same reason that boats have to be there for a story set in the Age of Sail.

leetcrew 6y ago
I've never watched babylon 5, so I can't comment too much on it. a common trope in sci-fi is that jumpgates (or something similar) were built by some ancient super-advanced civilization, while the current civilization understands them to the minimum extent necessary to actually use them. this is a good way to sidestep the issue, since any inconsistencies can plausibly be the result of missing knowledge in-universe. as to "whether it's still sci-fi", imo it depends a bit more on the setting. if FTL has already existed for 100+ years, it makes sense for it to be a background detail. on the other hand, if you have a story where FTL was discovered recently and it doesn't profoundly impact the plot, I would consider that to be pretty bad sci-fi. like I said, this is just how I personally categorize things. to me, sci-fi is not just lasers in space. it's a genre where science/technology drives the plot, rather than being made up after the fact to justify the plot you want to have. it can still be sci-fi if the tech is totally implausible from a modern physics perspective; it just needs to be consistent. star wars is usually my go-to example of "not sci-fi". there are no consistent rules for how anything works in-universe. all the technology works in whatever way is necessary to justify the current scene and will likely contradict itself later for a different scene. it's still a very enjoyable franchise, just not what I would consider sci-fi. a show like the expanse is almost the opposite. there's some unrealistic stuff in there, but it's internally consistent. once you nail down what's possible given "the rules" in-universe, the plot almost writes itself.
garmaine 6y ago
There is a very sharp distinction drawn between hard science fiction, and the less-particular, broader genre of sci-fi. For the record, Babylon 5 was explicitly designed to be The Lord of the Rings in space. It's fantasy in sci-fi dress-up. Similar things could be said for Star Trek, Star Wars, and other sci-fi staples. Hard science fiction like The Expanse, or most of the collected works of Arthur C Clarke, Alistair Reynolds, Kim Stanley Robinson, and Robert Forward present entirely self-consistent universes set in the future with logical extrapolations of technical capability governed by physical law. Some people don't care for the distinction, but there are also those of us that have very strong preferences for ONLY readying hard science fiction. I like to feel that I learned something, or that the book describes societies that might someday come into being, or alien cultures that might realistically exist.