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> most of the fruit is still on the tree Case in point: image search for "shirt without stripes": https://github.com/elsamuko/Shirt-without-Stripes https://gi

> most of the fruit is still on the tree Case in point: image search for "shirt without stripes": https://github.com/elsamuko/Shirt-without-Stripes https://github.com/elsamuko/Shirt-without-Stripes HN comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22925087 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22925087

einpoklum 6y ago
This example is ruined, because now the search for "shirt without stripes" gives you that GitHub repository and the threads of comments about it...
- BoppreH 6y ago
  General search is ruined, but image and product search contains very few items about the repository and comments.
  - Grimm1 6y ago
    General search being ruined is a consequence of how Google has chosen to rank results and not an indictment against search in general though.
    - zepto 6y ago
      I’d like to believe that, but surely even if Google was a non-profit which gave away its index and showed no adverts anywhere, placement in search results would still be a valuable commodity and SEO would be pretty much the same as it is today.
      - Grimm1 6y ago
        I wasn't even attacking their positioning of advertisements among results. I was more saying that I think one of their larger signals (that we know of) PageRank has some consequences in terms of presenting things like a well linked and referenced GitHub result as a top result instead of an actual striped shirt. They do a really good job of filtering out garbage but in terms of contextual relevance it doesn't work out so well. Edit: I'll also point out that it may not even be a modern PageRank fault but a consequence of learning to rank or some other major signal but it's in line with what I would suppose to be the culprit.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 6y ago
    And it's easy to create similar examples. "Jacket without stripes". "Pan without non-stick coating". Anything of the form "X without Y" tends to trip up Google.
2sk21 6y ago
I agree: apart from "without", search engines don't handle logical quantifications properly (i.e. ∀ and ∃).

einpoklum 6y ago

This example is ruined, because now the search for "shirt without stripes" gives you that GitHub repository and the threads of comments about it...

BoppreH 6y ago
General search is ruined, but image and product search contains very few items about the repository and comments.
- Grimm1 6y ago
  General search being ruined is a consequence of how Google has chosen to rank results and not an indictment against search in general though.
  - zepto 6y ago
    I’d like to believe that, but surely even if Google was a non-profit which gave away its index and showed no adverts anywhere, placement in search results would still be a valuable commodity and SEO would be pretty much the same as it is today.
    - Grimm1 6y ago
      I wasn't even attacking their positioning of advertisements among results. I was more saying that I think one of their larger signals (that we know of) PageRank has some consequences in terms of presenting things like a well linked and referenced GitHub result as a top result instead of an actual striped shirt. They do a really good job of filtering out garbage but in terms of contextual relevance it doesn't work out so well. Edit: I'll also point out that it may not even be a modern PageRank fault but a consequence of learning to rank or some other major signal but it's in line with what I would suppose to be the culprit.
- SAI_Peregrinus 6y ago
  And it's easy to create similar examples. "Jacket without stripes". "Pan without non-stick coating". Anything of the form "X without Y" tends to trip up Google.

2sk21 6y ago

I agree: apart from "without", search engines don't handle logical quantifications properly (i.e. ∀ and ∃).