> here is decades of system development behind the C/C++ ecosystem and coming onto a C/C++ thread (about a package manager) and calling things a "shitshow" is n

> here is decades of system development behind the C/C++ ecosystem and coming onto a C/C++ thread (about a package manager) and calling things a "shitshow" is not going to win people over. But it is as shitshow. Pretty much everything in system programming is a shitshow. From the moment you boot up a computer, it's just continous stream of bad ideas, lack of foresight, incidental architectures, hacks, bugs and workarounds all glued together with a duct-tape. That's what system development really is. Everything we do in mainstream system computing is a shitshow. The fact that people are afraid to put any computer to handle public Internet traffic is a shitshow. It's a shitshow, everybody knows it's a shitshow and we even have whole mature industries sucking out a lot of money out of economy to deal with that shitshow. Anyone that can't see it's a shitshow can't really be "won over". They will happily live their lives being quite skilled at navigating this shitshow, and repeating stuff like "UB is not a problem", "security bugs are only problem of bad developers", "modern C++ is mostly-safe", and so on. The biggest shitshow... the meta-shitshow here, is how many people in systems development can't see it's a shitshow. They never ventured to investigate ideas from outside of the Unix/C/C++ bubble and tried to incorporate it into systems programming. And just to be clear... Rust is not completely shitshow-free, and is just a small pocket of almost-shitshow-free environment in a vast shitshow ocean.