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Isn't this position at odds with the Pope's previous statements regarding wealth inequality? > Poverty can be overcome, said the Pope, if an economic system is

Isn't this position at odds with the Pope's previous statements regarding wealth inequality? > Poverty can be overcome, said the Pope, if an economic system is put in place that includes, feeds, cures, and dresses those left behind by society. “We have to choose what and who to prioritize,” he said. Our choice will lead either to increased social injustice and violence, or to “humanizing socio-economic systems”.[0] also > And he condemned recurrent tax breaks for wealthy individuals as “structures of sin”. “Every year hundreds of millions of dollars – which should be collected as taxes and go to finance healthcare and education – instead end up in offshore accounts,” he said.[0] In other words, the pope demands state action to address the issue of poverty, but shies away from supporting action on the "moral" question of homosexuality. You can certainly make humanist arguments for these positions, but it seems incoherent when viewed through the lens of church dogma. [0]https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2020-02/pope-francis-pass-inclusion-workshop-finance.html https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2020-02/pope-francis...

duxup 6y ago
To be clear I think they're asking for state action as far as marriage goes too, even if only to extend legal protections to same sex partners. They're just not asking for the church's view of 'marriage' to be the only route to those protections.
- marcusverus 6y ago
  I apologize, I wasn't very precise in my wording there. The parent post expressed approval of the Pope's support of civil unions. The pope, he said, was refusing to pressure the state to adopt a policy in line with church dogma (i.e. opposed to tacit approval of homosexuality by the state). This as though the Pope were embracing the separation of Church and State. My point is, the Pope has a history of pressuring the state to support his religious/moral agenda (re: poverty) and has even gone beyond that to pressure the state on points outside of church dogma (re: his statements on wealth inequality and tax cuts). With that in mind, it seems odd that the Pope, who presumably believes in the infallibility of scripture[0], would feel that it was somehow wrong to pressure the state to support his moral agenda on the (alleged) sin of homosexuality (by opposing civil unions). It makes perfect sense from a humanist perspective, but from the Pope it seems arbitrary and internally incoherent. [0]https://uscatholic.org/articles/201611/is-the-bible-infallible/ https://uscatholic.org/articles/201611/is-the-bible-infallib...
  - rawgabbit 6y ago
    The Church has longed argued against the literal interpretation of the Bible which has led to a lot of vitriol with Fundamentalists. The Church argues that they inherit their teaching authority as theirs is the seat of St Peter's which is something the Eastern Orthodox Church contests. Anyways, the Church teaches that God who is the creator of everything, has slowly revealed himself to man. It is man who misinterprets what God has revealed. Even the Catechism which is the summary document that contains Church doctrine may be re-written in the distant future. https://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a3.htm https://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s... 110 In order to discover the sacred authors' intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current. "For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression." https://catholic-resources.org/ChurchDocs/PBC_Interp-FullText.htm#Sec1 https://catholic-resources.org/ChurchDocs/PBC_Interp-FullTex... The fundamentalist approach is dangerous, for it is attractive to people who look to the Bible for ready answers to the problems of life. It can deceive these people, offering them interpretations that are pious but illusory, instead of telling them that the Bible does not necessarily contain an immediate answer to each and every problem. Without saying as much in so many words, fundamentalism actually invites people to a kind of intellectual suicide. It injects into life a false certitude, for it unwittingly confuses the divine substance of the biblical message with what are in fact its human limitations.

duxup 6y ago

To be clear I think they're asking for state action as far as marriage goes too, even if only to extend legal protections to same sex partners. They're just not asking for the church's view of 'marriage' to be the only route to those protections.

marcusverus 6y ago
I apologize, I wasn't very precise in my wording there. The parent post expressed approval of the Pope's support of civil unions. The pope, he said, was refusing to pressure the state to adopt a policy in line with church dogma (i.e. opposed to tacit approval of homosexuality by the state). This as though the Pope were embracing the separation of Church and State. My point is, the Pope has a history of pressuring the state to support his religious/moral agenda (re: poverty) and has even gone beyond that to pressure the state on points outside of church dogma (re: his statements on wealth inequality and tax cuts). With that in mind, it seems odd that the Pope, who presumably believes in the infallibility of scripture[0], would feel that it was somehow wrong to pressure the state to support his moral agenda on the (alleged) sin of homosexuality (by opposing civil unions). It makes perfect sense from a humanist perspective, but from the Pope it seems arbitrary and internally incoherent. [0]https://uscatholic.org/articles/201611/is-the-bible-infallible/ https://uscatholic.org/articles/201611/is-the-bible-infallib...
- rawgabbit 6y ago
  The Church has longed argued against the literal interpretation of the Bible which has led to a lot of vitriol with Fundamentalists. The Church argues that they inherit their teaching authority as theirs is the seat of St Peter's which is something the Eastern Orthodox Church contests. Anyways, the Church teaches that God who is the creator of everything, has slowly revealed himself to man. It is man who misinterprets what God has revealed. Even the Catechism which is the summary document that contains Church doctrine may be re-written in the distant future. https://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a3.htm https://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s... 110 In order to discover the sacred authors' intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current. "For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression." https://catholic-resources.org/ChurchDocs/PBC_Interp-FullText.htm#Sec1 https://catholic-resources.org/ChurchDocs/PBC_Interp-FullTex... The fundamentalist approach is dangerous, for it is attractive to people who look to the Bible for ready answers to the problems of life. It can deceive these people, offering them interpretations that are pious but illusory, instead of telling them that the Bible does not necessarily contain an immediate answer to each and every problem. Without saying as much in so many words, fundamentalism actually invites people to a kind of intellectual suicide. It injects into life a false certitude, for it unwittingly confuses the divine substance of the biblical message with what are in fact its human limitations.