5 ms·

I would kill for a sbc with 2 M.2 slots. This allow for a incredibly small form factor NAS with good performance and reliability. I wonder why most SBC only us

by maeln 6y ago

I would kill for a sbc with 2 M.2 slots. This allow for a incredibly small form factor NAS with good performance and reliability. I wonder why most SBC only use sata (when they even have a storage connector). Is M.2/PCIe so much harder to add ? Or at least M.2 with sata 6Gb/s.

3np 6y ago
Please don't kill me. https://pcengines.ch/apu2e4.htm https://pcengines.ch/apu2e4.htm 2xmPCIe (m2), 1xmSATA (m2), 1xSATA. There're also plenty of boards around Ryzen Embedded (V1605B/V1807B/etc) if you need more lanes. There's Udoo Bolt. Sapphire and iBASE also has several boards. I'm not aware of any decent contenders with multiple m2 sockets based on ARM, if that's what you're specifically looking for. But you can always buy a cable or board that splits or bifurcates a single interface into multiple m2 slots. I haven't tried any of these myself but there are plenty of options on Ali, eBay, or directly from embedded/industrial vendors depending on your cost/reliability preferences. I've spent quite some time looking around for the optimal low-footprint storage cluster options and eventually ended up with mITX form-factor after realizing I want plenty of RAM and need more cores per node to handle ZFS+gluster+encryption. There are plenty of options if you don't, though! I'd advice to check out the APU's, either way. They have served me very well until I started upgrading and have now been repurposed for other use.
- rkwasny 6y ago
  This looks awesome, where can you buy it with a case?
  - 3np 6y ago
    The APU? The manufacturer also sells cheap metal cases that double as heatsinks, check out the webshop. The black one has the best heat-dissipation. If you want to fit 2.5" disks you'll have to DIY a bit.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
    E.g. here: https://www.pcengines.ch/newshop.php?c=2 https://www.pcengines.ch/newshop.php?c=2 - the type of the case is listed under "use with" on the product page.
- zdw 6y ago
  mPCIe and M.2 are different physically, so be careful in selecting cards. I've had positive experiences with the APU2 line as well - getting ECC support on the RAM now that firmware is being developed in the open was a really nice change: https://pcengines.github.io https://pcengines.github.io
  - 3np 6y ago
    Right, my bad. I can't edit my comment anymore but yes, it's mSATA/mPCIe (which have the same physical interface so you have to be careful which card you put in which port), not M.2. --- These interfaces can be really confusing, and it doesn't help that even manufacturers and vendors often incorrectly mix them up as well, which makes searching for adapters quite an ordeal... The Wikipedia page[0] is good as a primer now, but I remember spending like an hour or so figuring out if I could put an M.2.2260 in an M.2.2280 port (hint: the last digits only signify the length of the card so yes). And then the B-key/M-Key/E-key varieties, which ARE incompatible. I swear PCIe/SATA are worse than USB-C/TB in figuring out what you can put where to what effect... [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2
- torwayburger 6y ago
  I have (and love) the 4b4. I use it as a custom router/firewall at the moment.
- bonkabonka 6y ago
  Don't expect to use the APU2 with additional mini PCI Express SATA controllers: https://github.com/pcengines/apu2-documentation/blob/master/docs/mpcie_modules.md#sata-controllers https://github.com/pcengines/apu2-documentation/blob/master/... I did discover that JMicron cards[1] kinda work if you leave the drives powered off until the kernel boots and then power them on and let them hotplug. Wasn't ever able to make it work reliably though. [1]: https://www.newegg.com/syba-model-si-mpe40150-minipcie-controller-card/p/N82E16815124194 https://www.newegg.com/syba-model-si-mpe40150-minipcie-contr...
- bserge 6y ago
  Oh, 100 Euros, not bad at all. But man, that website is straight out of the late 90's/early 00's.
  - squarefoot 6y ago
    > But man, that website is straight out of the late 90's/early 00's. Which makes it 100 times more readable than the vast majority of today's crappy websites. About the products, never used PCEngines boards for NAS usage, but made some firewalls with them in the past and they're very reliable.
Nursie 6y ago
QNAP do a compact NAS with 4xM2 slots. It's not cheap and it's probably not exactly what you meant by SBC though... https://www.qnap.com/en/product/tbs-453dx https://www.qnap.com/en/product/tbs-453dx (edit - they aren't nvme slots as I first said, they're m2 sata)
wil421 6y ago
How are you going to reach SSD speeds over a gigabit Ethernet port or a PCIe x1 lane?
- maeln 6y ago
  Its more about reliability (SSD are much more tougher than hard drive) and space (the M.2 format is very compact).
progval 6y ago
The Rockpro64 comes with a PCIe x4 port; and it works well with a M.2 NVMe adapter. You could try it with a double M.2 adapter, but I'm not sure what speeds you can get with those.
jpm_sd 6y ago
The processors on ARM SBCs are mostly industrial or automotive designs and feature sets lag behind the consumer laptop/desktop market. Many of those processor families don't yet support NVMe, or just started supporting it recently.
rektide 6y ago
Fully agreed. I really want the low end SBC market to start dabbling in some expandability. This S905X3 chip has one port that multiplexes PCIe OR USB3 on it, & they use it for SATA, & I can't wait for these SoC systems to start offering just a little more high speed connectivity, please. Marvell's EspressoBin[1] was a great board, because it was small, easy to power, easy to plug a drive into, had space for wifi, had decent ethernet. So much goodness built in, at a great price point. Please all, more ambition on the I/O front! [1] http://espressobin.net/ http://espressobin.net/
manuel_w 6y ago
The ODYSSEY X86J4105864 could be of interest to you. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24809680 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24809680

by maeln 6y ago

3np 6y ago

Please don't kill me. https://pcengines.ch/apu2e4.htm https://pcengines.ch/apu2e4.htm 2xmPCIe (m2), 1xmSATA (m2), 1xSATA. There're also plenty of boards around Ryzen Embedded (V1605B/V1807B/etc) if you need more lanes. There's Udoo Bolt. Sapphire and iBASE also has several boards. I'm not aware of any decent contenders with multiple m2 sockets based on ARM, if that's what you're specifically looking for. But you can always buy a cable or board that splits or bifurcates a single interface into multiple m2 slots. I haven't tried any of these myself but there are plenty of options on Ali, eBay, or directly from embedded/industrial vendors depending on your cost/reliability preferences. I've spent quite some time looking around for the optimal low-footprint storage cluster options and eventually ended up with mITX form-factor after realizing I want plenty of RAM and need more cores per node to handle ZFS+gluster+encryption. There are plenty of options if you don't, though! I'd advice to check out the APU's, either way. They have served me very well until I started upgrading and have now been repurposed for other use.

rkwasny 6y ago
This looks awesome, where can you buy it with a case?
- 3np 6y ago
  The APU? The manufacturer also sells cheap metal cases that double as heatsinks, check out the webshop. The black one has the best heat-dissipation. If you want to fit 2.5" disks you'll have to DIY a bit.
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
  E.g. here: https://www.pcengines.ch/newshop.php?c=2 https://www.pcengines.ch/newshop.php?c=2 - the type of the case is listed under "use with" on the product page.
zdw 6y ago
mPCIe and M.2 are different physically, so be careful in selecting cards. I've had positive experiences with the APU2 line as well - getting ECC support on the RAM now that firmware is being developed in the open was a really nice change: https://pcengines.github.io https://pcengines.github.io
- 3np 6y ago
  Right, my bad. I can't edit my comment anymore but yes, it's mSATA/mPCIe (which have the same physical interface so you have to be careful which card you put in which port), not M.2. --- These interfaces can be really confusing, and it doesn't help that even manufacturers and vendors often incorrectly mix them up as well, which makes searching for adapters quite an ordeal... The Wikipedia page[0] is good as a primer now, but I remember spending like an hour or so figuring out if I could put an M.2.2260 in an M.2.2280 port (hint: the last digits only signify the length of the card so yes). And then the B-key/M-Key/E-key varieties, which ARE incompatible. I swear PCIe/SATA are worse than USB-C/TB in figuring out what you can put where to what effect... [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2
torwayburger 6y ago
I have (and love) the 4b4. I use it as a custom router/firewall at the moment.
bonkabonka 6y ago
Don't expect to use the APU2 with additional mini PCI Express SATA controllers: https://github.com/pcengines/apu2-documentation/blob/master/docs/mpcie_modules.md#sata-controllers https://github.com/pcengines/apu2-documentation/blob/master/... I did discover that JMicron cards[1] kinda work if you leave the drives powered off until the kernel boots and then power them on and let them hotplug. Wasn't ever able to make it work reliably though. [1]: https://www.newegg.com/syba-model-si-mpe40150-minipcie-controller-card/p/N82E16815124194 https://www.newegg.com/syba-model-si-mpe40150-minipcie-contr...
bserge 6y ago
Oh, 100 Euros, not bad at all. But man, that website is straight out of the late 90's/early 00's.
- squarefoot 6y ago
  > But man, that website is straight out of the late 90's/early 00's. Which makes it 100 times more readable than the vast majority of today's crappy websites. About the products, never used PCEngines boards for NAS usage, but made some firewalls with them in the past and they're very reliable.

Nursie 6y ago

QNAP do a compact NAS with 4xM2 slots. It's not cheap and it's probably not exactly what you meant by SBC though... https://www.qnap.com/en/product/tbs-453dx https://www.qnap.com/en/product/tbs-453dx (edit - they aren't nvme slots as I first said, they're m2 sata)

wil421 6y ago

How are you going to reach SSD speeds over a gigabit Ethernet port or a PCIe x1 lane?

maeln 6y ago
Its more about reliability (SSD are much more tougher than hard drive) and space (the M.2 format is very compact).

progval 6y ago

The Rockpro64 comes with a PCIe x4 port; and it works well with a M.2 NVMe adapter. You could try it with a double M.2 adapter, but I'm not sure what speeds you can get with those.

jpm_sd 6y ago

The processors on ARM SBCs are mostly industrial or automotive designs and feature sets lag behind the consumer laptop/desktop market. Many of those processor families don't yet support NVMe, or just started supporting it recently.

rektide 6y ago

Fully agreed. I really want the low end SBC market to start dabbling in some expandability. This S905X3 chip has one port that multiplexes PCIe OR USB3 on it, & they use it for SATA, & I can't wait for these SoC systems to start offering just a little more high speed connectivity, please. Marvell's EspressoBin[1] was a great board, because it was small, easy to power, easy to plug a drive into, had space for wifi, had decent ethernet. So much goodness built in, at a great price point. Please all, more ambition on the I/O front! [1] http://espressobin.net/ http://espressobin.net/

manuel_w 6y ago

The ODYSSEY X86J4105864 could be of interest to you. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24809680 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24809680