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Researchers discover new salivary glands in the human head
- notRobot 6y ago> Mysterious Organ Lurking in the Centre of the Head ... The brain? :P In all seriousness, this is really cool. It's incredible how we still keep finding out new things about our body. You'd've thought that there wouldn't be much left to find at the macroscopic level, and yet...
- andix 6y agoIs this for real, or just fake news?
- drchiu 6y agoI remember the cadaver labs during the school days. Really hard to spot certain (save for the really large organs which are obvious) unless you know what it is you’re looking for. Sometimes an illustration tells you it should be there but the actual structure is... underwhelming or barely visible/damaged from years of specimen abuse. Can see how things like this can be missed.
- peteretep 6y agoFor some reason this reminds me of the joke: “If the surgeon cuts a vessel and knows the name of that vessel, the situation is serious; if the anaesthetist knows the name of the vessel the situation is irretrievable”
- drchiu 6y agoStrangely enough, I find the anesthesiologist sometimes knows the name of the vessels as well as the surgeon, especially for the run of the mill surgeries. Because it usually turns a 20 minute operation to 60-90 minutes (the added time to fix the mistake and find the bleeder, and go to plan B), and they miss their coffee break as a result!
- Raphmedia 6y agoThis is it. Most structures just look like meat. It's easy to spot them on a 3D render where they are bright yellow. In real life, it's just different textures of meat with slightly different hues.
- hilbert42 6y agoIt seems almost unbelievable that in this day and age we could have missed something like this. In my opinion, it put modern medicine into perspective. I've suspected for some time that medicine is actually closer to the dark ages than we like to think it is, and this report seems like a good validation of that notion.
- bantunes 6y agoI feel like the fact this is rare, big news kind of negates your point.
- dynamite-ready 6y agoAgreed, though it also makes me think of the numerous cases of drugs developed with a specific purpose, but then afterwards found to have a completely different effect to what was originally intended. Medical science is an incredible thing, but science, by definition, does not have all the answers. A small part of me is actually somewhat surprised, that people (both lay, and professional) are surprised. Though I am not the best placed commentator to champion this view.
- majewsky 6y ago> drugs developed with a specific purpose, but then afterwards found to have a completely different effect to what was originally intended I don't find that surprising. You have to do the early phases of drug development in model systems like cell cultures for practical reasons: It makes evidence obtained more reproducible and has less ethical concerns than experimenting on humans immediately. It's like how software components usually get implemented and tested in simplified environments (e.g. unit tests use doubles), and just like with drugs, sometimes we find that software components interact with each other in unexpected ways when combined into a whole.
- iguy 6y agoWhat seems weird about this is that the process for deciding that an approved drug is useful for a certain condition (not the one it was intended for) is really informal, it seems to rely on common knowledge circulating in the guild. For the initial approval, we have this very formal process, the FDA wants this kind of data from trials of this size to show this statistical level, etc. All very scientific-looking. But once it's on the market, random doctors try it out for other conditions. If it seems to work they tell their buddies, tweak the mixtures, share anecdotes. If it becomes widespread, some industry club records this for the purpose of arguing with insurance companies. I am told this off-label use now constitutes the majority of drug prescriptions. All based on (as far as I can tell) no statistically driven testing at all, just stories. (To be clear, I'm not at all surprised that drugs have "off-target" effects, and may be very useful for things their inventor never imagines. I'm just a bit shocked how pre-modern our system for collecting this knowledge appears to be. But not an expert, and would love to know more.)
- r721 6y agoNYT's title is a bit more cautious: >Doctors May Have Found Secretive New Organs in the Center of Your Head https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/19/health/saliva-glands-new-organs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/19/health/saliva-glands-new-... >Dr. Alvand Hassankhani, a radiologist at the University of Pennsylvania, said he was hesitant to label the structures “new organs.” In addition to the three pairs of known large salivary glands, some 1,000 minor salivary glands are sprinkled across the lining of the mouth and throat. They are more petite and tougher to find through imaging or scanning than their heftier cousins. It’s possible that the Dutch researchers just happened upon a better way to image a set of underappreciated minor glands, Dr. Hassankhani said.
- Hnrobert42 6y ago> Secretive Organ Good one.
- engineer_22 6y agoI don't think either title is very useful. "Doctors identify new salivary organ".... maybe? Then I wouldn't have to open their article and I can go on my merry way. Big ups for science, thumbs down for click bait.
- hilbert42 6y agoRight, it'll be interesting to see if this turns out to be another medical research news beat-up. As I keep repeating, hyped up medical and science stories are very counterproductive, they end up turning people away from science, as they are repeatedly disappointed when the promised 'goods aren't delivered. Over many decades, we've seen this all too often with news releases about cancer research. It's done great harm.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- pvaldes 6y agoI'll propose to name it the Plumbus
- swyx 6y agoHomunculus?
- chiefalchemist 6y agoThe human body is complex; it's complicated. How many times have we heard, "I went to X different doctors and none could diagnosis me." That's not a knock on medicine or science, just a simple statement of fact. That is, there is plenty we have yet to understand.
- nicoffeine 6y agoAnd if we do understand it, that doesn't mean a doctor knows about it. My father was in the hospital for two days with vertigo. He was so frustrated waiting for specialists to show up that he checked himself out. I was pissed - he's notoriously awful at listening to medical advice. I said, "Did you even wait for them to try the Epley maneuver?"[1] Turns out they didn't even suggest it. I only know about it because my grandmother has it done regularly for her vertigo. And it seems to have solved his problem. I'm sure it's already in the threads, but that recalls the old joke, "What do you call a medical student with a D average?" "Doctor." [1] https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-therapies/home-epley-maneuver https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-t...
- roktiw 6y agoI wonder can this lurker produce DMT
- dynamite-ready 6y agoA bit of a random, uneducated question, but somewhat related... For anatomists with a strong knowledge of both, which is more complicated? The human head, or the human gut? I suppose I'm wondering about the potential for something like this to happen again.
- DoreenMichele 6y agoIt wasn't hugely long ago that the mesentery was making the news as the newest official organ identified in the human body. It is in the gut: 2017: It's Official: A Brand-New Human Organ Has Been Classified https://www.sciencealert.com/it-s-official-a-brand-new-human-organ-has-been-classified https://www.sciencealert.com/it-s-official-a-brand-new-human... The neurological system for the gut is so complex that it gets called a "second brain" in some literature.
- daniellarusso 6y agoAlso, this book, The Second Brain, is a bit older, but relevant: https://www.amazon.com/Second-Brain-Groundbreaking-Understanding-Disorders/dp/0060930721 https://www.amazon.com/Second-Brain-Groundbreaking-Understan...
- dynamite-ready 6y agoI've read a little about the complexity of the gut and it's nervous system connections, but was just thinking of a rough comparison of the two sites. I mean, if you include the anatomy of brain, the head is conclusively more complicated. But if you consider the brain, and perhaps the nervous network to be a single, extremely complex part, then I suppose you'd still have to believe the head is the more complicated of the two, because of the eyes, and the array of muscles around the face... Was just musing, tbh.
- DoreenMichele 6y agoI think a hard question to answer is "Where does the gut end and the contents of the gut begin?" Stomach acid is contents of the gut but also part of the digestive tract. An even more thorny issue: the microbiome, which is a hot topic in research. And that's a complication the head lacks.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago> The study was small, and examined a limited patient population Curious if this is present in all humans or a local evolution.
- nl 6y agoThey examined 100 patients and two brains and it appeared in all of them. There are no instances of a new organ appearing in a local human population.
- Raphmedia 6y agoSome vestigial structures are missing on some people. For example the little muscles at the point of the ears (Darwin's tubercle). It has been documented to be present in about 10.5% of the Spanish adult population, 40% of Indian adults, and 58% of Swedish school children.
- nl 6y agoI don't believe Darwin's tubercle is a muscle - it appears to be just variation in appearence (like connected ear lobes): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin%27s_tubercle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin%27s_tubercle However, TIL about the Palmaris longus muscle which is absent in around 14% of people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmaris_longus_muscle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmaris_longus_muscle
- DoreenMichele 6y agoThis paragraph in particular impresses me: Preliminary data – based on a retrospective analysis of 723 patients who underwent radiation treatment – seem to support the conclusion radiation delivered to the tubarial glands region results in greater complications for patients afterwards: a result that not only could benefit future oncology, but also seems to strengthen the case that these mysterious, overlooked structures really are salivary glands. So we already have existing data we can kind of "retrofit" to this new mental model and get meaningful feedback that this new conclusion seems to fit with verifiable experience. That's actually pretty darn cool for a variety of reasons.
- xattt 6y agoSource article: https://www.thegreenjournal.com/article/S0167-8140(20)30809-4/fulltext https://www.thegreenjournal.com/article/S0167-8140(20)30809-... The dumbed-down article seems to miss that inadvertent irradiation of the tubarial glands contributes to dry mouth in patients with cancer.
- NiceWayToDoIT 6y agoI find this weirdly amazing, as to this day I was reading some medical news and documentaries where it was said that entire human bodies were sliced by millimetre slices. So, somehow I always imagined that each part of body and tissue is 100% known and that only left is to find out what are inner workings on the nano-meter scale, deep molecular levels or genetic level. But in 2018 there was a similar news about Interstitium: https://www.livescience.com/62128-interstitium-organ.html https://www.livescience.com/62128-interstitium-organ.html In 2017 there was mesentery: https://www.livescience.com/57370-mesentery-new-organ-identified.html https://www.livescience.com/57370-mesentery-new-organ-identi... Now we have this. So, reading this left me with one though "hidden in plain sight" and wondering what else is there.
- justinclift 6y agoThere's also this: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-researchers-uncover-drain-pipes-our-brains https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-researcher...
- rbanffy 6y agoThat we still find new structures within our own bodies should be deeply troubling to anyone in the medical sciences. I for one would be deeply ashamed if I suddenly found that bytes had a ninth bit we never suspected was there in the first place.
- sneak 6y agoIt’s deeply troubling to me not in the medical sciences. We know so startlingly little about how our own machines work in many ways.
- Joker_vD 6y agoHave you heard of ECC memory?
- 52-6F-62 6y agoYeah... and hearing some of those being related to the gut. I’ve been diagnosed with a condition this year without real, solid evidence for cause. Seeing some of the brightest doctors try and write off health matters to alcoholism in non-alcoholics was concerning. After even cursory, high-level reading of what those terms mean elf me to believe it’s the favoured diagnosis when they’re unsure of the diagnosis and hesitate at all costs to give the label “idiopathic” if possible because then it really means “we don’t know”. It’s not reassuring.
- NiceWayToDoIT 6y agoQuestion for those medical HN ppl: What is definition of organ? I mean before when people were doing surgeries and slicing through interstitium, mesentery or different glands, were surgeon thinking "i will just slice through this slimy thing that does not do anything" or there was more thought about it? Before people were removing on regular bases appendix or tonsil, now understanding about the role has changed... so How does something becomes an organ after 100 years of modern technology? Just to clarify I meant would it be possible in future that part of let say heart could become an organ?
- iguy 6y agoNot a medical person, but I think this is much like asking "what's a species?". Nature is clearly clumpy, your body has one heart & two lungs & they have obviously different tissues & purposes. But precisely how many organs, and precisely where you draw the divides, is something we don't have sharp answers to. We adjust as we go along.
- saalweachter 6y agoTo add on to this, the question becomes "Is it useful to treat this part as a separate organ (sometimes)?"
- projektfu 6y agoI’m a little surprised they went to a press release but didn’t say they identified a structure in a cadaver. So, at the moment, this is sort of like a geological feature that’s only ever been seen using a satellite.
- flattone 6y agoWhat does that mean? (Zero medical cadaver background, with regard tk the distance of validity between one or the other). Satellites are a lot more powerful (hehe) than our eyes, so my understanding Of your point failed.
- roywiggins 6y agoThey did find it in two cadavers: "These tubarial glands were seen to exist in the PSMA PET/CT scans of all the 100 patients examined in the study, and physical investigations of two cadavers – one male and one female – also showed the mysterious bilateral structure, revealing macroscopically visible draining duct openings towards the nasopharyngeal wall."
- projektfu 6y agoAh. Thanks, i read the article but not carefully it seems.
- JorgeGT 6y agoLike Landsat island: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsat_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsat_Island
- aaron695 6y agoWe don't know if the Japanese have longer intestines. https://medium.com/words-escape-us/are-japanese-intestines-longer-8a41ca3e7d89 https://medium.com/words-escape-us/are-japanese-intestines-l... I don't know if this Mysterious Organ will be real, but the fact it's up for discussion is the problem.
- sradman 6y ago> ...the discovery gives us another target to avoid during radiation treatments for patients with cancer, as salivary glands are highly susceptible to damage from the therapy. The discovery, therefore, has practical uses.
- wombatmobile 6y agoThe lymph duct to the brain was only discovered in 2017. Prior to that, we had no idea how the brain clears waste and fights infections. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/brain-cleaning-system-uses-lymphatic-vessels https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/brain-c...
- drchiu 6y agoYeah I remember that! Did med school in the early 2000s and they glossed over this part.
- egberts1 6y agoIs it just me, or shall we cue in the pyaneal gland from Reanimator, the movie?
- woliveirajr 6y agoIf there is some connection with salivary glands, doesn't that mean that infections from your mouth have a path right to the middle of your brain?
- escape_goat 6y agoIt's worth noting, for the sake of everyone here in the comments on a tl;dr tanget, that the organ is absolutely not new or 'mysterious' in the least. There are a pair of salivary glands at the back of the nose in a place no-one thought to look at them. They were discovered because they accumulated radioactive glucose, like the other salivary glands, to an extent that was visible when a fairly new and sophisticated scanning technique was used. They revealed macroscopic structure upon examination in two cadavers.
- saagarjha 6y agoThought this was an Onion headline for a second :P
- t-writescode 6y agoI wonder if this sort of thing could be useful for fighting diseases that resist the blood/brain barrier.
- mrfusion 6y agoCould this be the soul?
- exolymph 6y agoProbably not? Why would you think that?
- arey_abhishek 6y agoIt amazes me that we are still discovering new features in our anatomy. I studied biological sciences in undergrad, and studying anatomy was like studying history because almost all of it was discovered by the 1950's.
- kazinator 6y agoMy head predates the research. Where can I get these installed?