4 ms·

I don't like to call these projects "me too", as it makes it sounds like the goal is only to brag about having one. It isn't. The goal is to guarantee independe

by Xixi 6y ago

I don't like to call these projects "me too", as it makes it sounds like the goal is only to brag about having one. It isn't. The goal is to guarantee independent access to a GNSS. It only needs to be good enough for US to lose the ability to use GPS access as leverage. I would refine that claim even further: it only needs to be good enough for Merkel, Macron, etc. to be able to confidently say "no" to a US demand made under threat of cutting GPS military access. That said the Galileo project really looks like it is very badly managed, which is sadly rather common for European projects of this kind, especially on the military side of things. Even smaller projects with only a handful of countries tend to have so much overhead that it makes you wonder if going alone would not be cheaper...

buran77 6y ago
The US still has that leverage because of their heavy handed way of treating even allies. The EU still very much relies on the US but not because they are friends and allies, and not because the EU could not do better, but because they have to make choices under duress. Examples for such behavior abound but people judge with their feelings rather than the facts because EU citizens would rather assume they're in a stronger position, and US citizens would rather assume they're in a morally superior position. > Under US pressure the EU has agreed to use transmission frequencies that could be easily disturbed or completely jammed by the US military. [0] > The US has already leaned hard on European officials to abandon the €1.1bn (£772m) project. [1] [0] https://tech.slashdot.org/story/03/12/01/1226207/galileo-system-to-include-jamming-capability https://tech.slashdot.org/story/03/12/01/1226207/galileo-sys... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/dec/08/world.internationaleducationnews https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/dec/08/world.internation...
- exar0815 6y ago
  The biggest fear of US-Geopolitics basically since 1920 is close ties of europe to russia. A european economy fueled by cheap russian resources would mean even less reliance on the US. Thats why the US is so heavy handed to a lot of those projects. Fewer and fewer levers remain to nudge their "allies" into line, and that scares a lot of US-officials.
  - buran77 6y ago
    I'm not disputing any of that, the reasoning from the US perspective is pretty solid. US's real strength isn't their nuclear arsenal, it's the legitimacy its allies grant them, with the EU being at the top of the list. So the allies must stay on their side even if it means using these methods. From the US perspective losing the EU as allies is a double whammy because it also likely means US enemies would gain some, hence treating them as potential "enemies to be". I also agree that fewer levers remain and we can see this with all the EU's recent political, legal, or economic moves that no longer really fall in line with US policy.
- ardy42 6y ago
  >> Under US pressure the EU has agreed to use transmission frequencies that could be easily disturbed or completely jammed by the US military. [0] It appears "easily disturbed" means "on a different frequency."
cpcallen 6y ago
> That said the Galileo project really looks like it is very badly managed, which is sadly rather common for European projects of this kind, especially on the military side of things. Have you heard about the new system the UK was building to replace Galileo? https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jun/26/satellite-experts-oneweb-investment-uk-galileo-brexit https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jun/26/satellite-ex... By comparison to the UK, the EU GNSS is a paragon of technical expertise and efficient project management.

by Xixi 6y ago

buran77 6y ago

The US still has that leverage because of their heavy handed way of treating even allies. The EU still very much relies on the US but not because they are friends and allies, and not because the EU could not do better, but because they have to make choices under duress. Examples for such behavior abound but people judge with their feelings rather than the facts because EU citizens would rather assume they're in a stronger position, and US citizens would rather assume they're in a morally superior position. > Under US pressure the EU has agreed to use transmission frequencies that could be easily disturbed or completely jammed by the US military. [0] > The US has already leaned hard on European officials to abandon the €1.1bn (£772m) project. [1] [0] https://tech.slashdot.org/story/03/12/01/1226207/galileo-system-to-include-jamming-capability https://tech.slashdot.org/story/03/12/01/1226207/galileo-sys... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/dec/08/world.internationaleducationnews https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/dec/08/world.internation...

exar0815 6y ago
The biggest fear of US-Geopolitics basically since 1920 is close ties of europe to russia. A european economy fueled by cheap russian resources would mean even less reliance on the US. Thats why the US is so heavy handed to a lot of those projects. Fewer and fewer levers remain to nudge their "allies" into line, and that scares a lot of US-officials.
- buran77 6y ago
  I'm not disputing any of that, the reasoning from the US perspective is pretty solid. US's real strength isn't their nuclear arsenal, it's the legitimacy its allies grant them, with the EU being at the top of the list. So the allies must stay on their side even if it means using these methods. From the US perspective losing the EU as allies is a double whammy because it also likely means US enemies would gain some, hence treating them as potential "enemies to be". I also agree that fewer levers remain and we can see this with all the EU's recent political, legal, or economic moves that no longer really fall in line with US policy.
ardy42 6y ago
>> Under US pressure the EU has agreed to use transmission frequencies that could be easily disturbed or completely jammed by the US military. [0] It appears "easily disturbed" means "on a different frequency."

cpcallen 6y ago

> That said the Galileo project really looks like it is very badly managed, which is sadly rather common for European projects of this kind, especially on the military side of things. Have you heard about the new system the UK was building to replace Galileo? https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jun/26/satellite-experts-oneweb-investment-uk-galileo-brexit https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jun/26/satellite-ex... By comparison to the UK, the EU GNSS is a paragon of technical expertise and efficient project management.