4 ms·

At some point are we better at healthcare for mice than for humans?

arthurcolle 6y ago
Almost definitionally, yes.
DoreenMichele 6y ago
Maybe not. We do this to mice because experimenting on humans like they are Frankenstinian monsters is unethical and illegal.
- xwdv 6y ago
  But far more effective unfortunately. Imagine the advances that could be made without moral obligations getting in the way.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    Funny, I see zero evidence that the Syphilis experiment done on Black men in Alabama without their consent has done anything at all for the status or health of Black Americans. It seems to me their lives still suck more than average for Americans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study
    - xwdv 6y ago
      I cannot comment on that particular experiment.
- jcims 6y ago
  Until we start growing little parts of humans - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41580-020-0259-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41580-020-0259-3 I mean, little parts at first...then whole organs, then whole systems, then everything but the brain, etc etc.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    I've never seen it, but I have heard that is basically the plot for the movie The Island: What happens when we get to the logical end point and it turns out you need to grow a whole person for things to work right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Island_(2005_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Island_(2005_film)
    - shadowprofile77 6y ago
      Assuming we really did develop the capacity to grow whole bodies from genetic material for custom, rejection-free transplants, i'd see no ethical problem with creating mindless bodies that are just good enough to keep all those organs usable for their intended host's needs. These would not only not be conscious human beings in any sense, they wouldn't even be the shells of possible people stolen from any family. In any case, taking ethical debates about organ growth to extremes such as these strikes me as a form of moral masturbation. We're barely at the point where we can even seriously consider developing single simple regrown organs, let alone worrying about "The Island" style dilemmas. And if we do indeed start having the capacity to commercially create genetically regrown individual body parts as stand-alone transplant treatments, the immediate human-life value of their existence would far outweigh any ambiguous worries about somehow moving to full body clones at some maybe point in the future.
refurb 6y ago
Sure if by better you mean ignoring long term efficacy and safety and then sacrificing them after the study is done.

Almost definitionally, yes.

Maybe not. We do this to mice because experimenting on humans like they are Frankenstinian monsters is unethical and illegal.

xwdv 6y ago
But far more effective unfortunately. Imagine the advances that could be made without moral obligations getting in the way.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Funny, I see zero evidence that the Syphilis experiment done on Black men in Alabama without their consent has done anything at all for the status or health of Black Americans. It seems to me their lives still suck more than average for Americans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study
  - xwdv 6y ago
    I cannot comment on that particular experiment.
jcims 6y ago
Until we start growing little parts of humans - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41580-020-0259-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41580-020-0259-3 I mean, little parts at first...then whole organs, then whole systems, then everything but the brain, etc etc.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  I've never seen it, but I have heard that is basically the plot for the movie The Island: What happens when we get to the logical end point and it turns out you need to grow a whole person for things to work right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Island_(2005_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Island_(2005_film)
  - shadowprofile77 6y ago
    Assuming we really did develop the capacity to grow whole bodies from genetic material for custom, rejection-free transplants, i'd see no ethical problem with creating mindless bodies that are just good enough to keep all those organs usable for their intended host's needs. These would not only not be conscious human beings in any sense, they wouldn't even be the shells of possible people stolen from any family. In any case, taking ethical debates about organ growth to extremes such as these strikes me as a form of moral masturbation. We're barely at the point where we can even seriously consider developing single simple regrown organs, let alone worrying about "The Island" style dilemmas. And if we do indeed start having the capacity to commercially create genetically regrown individual body parts as stand-alone transplant treatments, the immediate human-life value of their existence would far outweigh any ambiguous worries about somehow moving to full body clones at some maybe point in the future.

refurb 6y ago

Sure if by better you mean ignoring long term efficacy and safety and then sacrificing them after the study is done.