5 ms·

When I started working with Indians, this is exactly what it reminded me of. "Yes, ftp is the file transfer protocol, used to move files" "Can you ftp the fil

When I started working with Indians, this is exactly what it reminded me of. "Yes, ftp is the file transfer protocol, used to move files" "Can you ftp the files up please?" "No, I have never used it"

rdtsc 16y ago
Now you'll probably be downvoted for not being politically correct, but I agree with you. At least in my experience, most Indian-educated graduates I have worked with, were very willing to use a slew of acronyms to somehow trying to convince others that if they know the acronym, then they "understand" the concept. It is hard to describe it. You'll notice it when you encounter it.
- zwischenzug 16y ago
  It's the lack of education in the broader sense. I weed so many out in interview with simple comprehension questions. The trouble is that their education system and culture does them such a disservice that it's hard to spot the good ones in amongst the dross.
  - microarchitect 16y ago
    I'm not sure why you think it's question of culture. There are plenty of people of Indian origin in the US who have fairly strong ties to Indian culture, but I've never heard any complaints about them being unable to understand stuff.
    - zwischenzug 16y ago
      They were raised in the US?
      - pckhoi 16y ago
        rather they conform to the US way, more likely. Local custom matters.
    - raghava 16y ago
      Culture does matter. In India, boasting about ranks/marks of one's kids is pretty much a cultural thing, everyone does that, with an enormous pride. This breeds a batch of kids who want marks and not the knowledge or understanding of things. Almost everything is a darned 1/2/5/10 marks question. Even the interested ones are forced to conform and be one in the herd. Indian social framework by large kills creativity and promotes rote learning, and the effects thus seen are quite well known and obvious.
      - microarchitect 16y ago
        Culture does matter. In India, boasting about ranks/marks of one's kids is pretty much a cultural thing, everyone does that, with an enormous pride. This breeds a batch of kids who want marks and not the knowledge or understanding of things. Fair enough. I agree with this. Almost everything is a darned 1/2/5/10 marks question. Even the interested ones are forced to conform and be one in the herd. This maybe true, but I'm also not completely convinced. I don't think we lack creativity - there are any number of stories of 'jugaad' I could bring up here to make my point. We do attempt to conform a lot though - but even the Japanese do that and they don't seem to lack any creativity. Indian social framework by large kills creativity and promotes rote learning, and the effects thus seen are quite well known and obvious. Perhaps, I'm misunderstanding you, but the claim that the Indian social framework kills creativity is not at all obvious to me. My thinking is that the middle class promotes rote learning because it values education and doesn't know the difference between real understanding and rote learning. I once heard a really well-known American professor say "most people don't like thinking" and sometimes I think is true pretty much everywhere in the world. If you look at the Americans and kind of dumb ideas a significant minority of them have about any number of issues (evolution, Islam, Obama's birth, Saddam, the Iraq War) it's quite clear they lack some basic reasoning skills. Therefore, I suggest the following (intentionally controversial) hypothesis. Only the smartest 25% of people are actually capable of thinking. Perhaps, in the US, it turns out that this set is a superset of those employed in technology companies. In India, through an accident of economic circumstances, this is not the case. This is probably why we see so many instances of "dumb Indian software developers".
        16y ago
raghava 16y ago
> working with Indians Few Indians, you mean. (Though a majority of them would end up in that 'few' category)
- zwischenzug 16y ago
  Um, what?
  - raghava 16y ago
    I was merely remarking upon the fact that your comment classified all Indians in one category, that of folks who mug up jargon, acronyms and definitions but are not really knowledgeable about the actual usage. However, let me assure you, not all Indians are like that. There are Indians with reasonable thoughts and rational curiosity. In all your interactions you might not have seen such kind, that's certainly unfortunate.
    - Retric 16y ago
      While my sample size is small < 50. I have seen both types of Indians and yet, I would be willing to suggest that Most Indians who end up as programming H1b's have similar issues. My guess is it's jarring for people because the people who get into software in India are the mostly the type of people who would do something else in the US. PS: Still it's hard not to draw concussions about a country even know that your samples are biased.
      - zwischenzug 16y ago
        My sample size is around 200. Interestingly, I interviewed one fantastic Indian woman. Turned out, she'd been schooled by Catholics.
    - zwischenzug 16y ago
      Indeed, that's why I didn't say: "all Indians are like this". It's just surprising how many graduates from Indian universities seem to be completely uneducated in a broader sense. It makes one realise the value of (or problems arising from) common unspoken assumptions.

When I started working with Indians, this is exactly what it reminded me of. "Yes, ftp is the file transfer protocol, used to move files" "Can you ftp the files up please?" "No, I have never used it"

rdtsc 16y ago

Now you'll probably be downvoted for not being politically correct, but I agree with you. At least in my experience, most Indian-educated graduates I have worked with, were very willing to use a slew of acronyms to somehow trying to convince others that if they know the acronym, then they "understand" the concept. It is hard to describe it. You'll notice it when you encounter it.

zwischenzug 16y ago
It's the lack of education in the broader sense. I weed so many out in interview with simple comprehension questions. The trouble is that their education system and culture does them such a disservice that it's hard to spot the good ones in amongst the dross.
- microarchitect 16y ago
  I'm not sure why you think it's question of culture. There are plenty of people of Indian origin in the US who have fairly strong ties to Indian culture, but I've never heard any complaints about them being unable to understand stuff.
  - zwischenzug 16y ago
    They were raised in the US?
    - pckhoi 16y ago
      rather they conform to the US way, more likely. Local custom matters.
  - raghava 16y ago
    Culture does matter. In India, boasting about ranks/marks of one's kids is pretty much a cultural thing, everyone does that, with an enormous pride. This breeds a batch of kids who want marks and not the knowledge or understanding of things. Almost everything is a darned 1/2/5/10 marks question. Even the interested ones are forced to conform and be one in the herd. Indian social framework by large kills creativity and promotes rote learning, and the effects thus seen are quite well known and obvious.
    - microarchitect 16y ago
      Culture does matter. In India, boasting about ranks/marks of one's kids is pretty much a cultural thing, everyone does that, with an enormous pride. This breeds a batch of kids who want marks and not the knowledge or understanding of things. Fair enough. I agree with this. Almost everything is a darned 1/2/5/10 marks question. Even the interested ones are forced to conform and be one in the herd. This maybe true, but I'm also not completely convinced. I don't think we lack creativity - there are any number of stories of 'jugaad' I could bring up here to make my point. We do attempt to conform a lot though - but even the Japanese do that and they don't seem to lack any creativity. Indian social framework by large kills creativity and promotes rote learning, and the effects thus seen are quite well known and obvious. Perhaps, I'm misunderstanding you, but the claim that the Indian social framework kills creativity is not at all obvious to me. My thinking is that the middle class promotes rote learning because it values education and doesn't know the difference between real understanding and rote learning. I once heard a really well-known American professor say "most people don't like thinking" and sometimes I think is true pretty much everywhere in the world. If you look at the Americans and kind of dumb ideas a significant minority of them have about any number of issues (evolution, Islam, Obama's birth, Saddam, the Iraq War) it's quite clear they lack some basic reasoning skills. Therefore, I suggest the following (intentionally controversial) hypothesis. Only the smartest 25% of people are actually capable of thinking. Perhaps, in the US, it turns out that this set is a superset of those employed in technology companies. In India, through an accident of economic circumstances, this is not the case. This is probably why we see so many instances of "dumb Indian software developers".
      - 16y ago

raghava 16y ago

> working with Indians Few Indians, you mean. (Though a majority of them would end up in that 'few' category)

zwischenzug 16y ago
Um, what?
- raghava 16y ago
  I was merely remarking upon the fact that your comment classified all Indians in one category, that of folks who mug up jargon, acronyms and definitions but are not really knowledgeable about the actual usage. However, let me assure you, not all Indians are like that. There are Indians with reasonable thoughts and rational curiosity. In all your interactions you might not have seen such kind, that's certainly unfortunate.
  - Retric 16y ago
    While my sample size is small < 50. I have seen both types of Indians and yet, I would be willing to suggest that Most Indians who end up as programming H1b's have similar issues. My guess is it's jarring for people because the people who get into software in India are the mostly the type of people who would do something else in the US. PS: Still it's hard not to draw concussions about a country even know that your samples are biased.
    - zwischenzug 16y ago
      My sample size is around 200. Interestingly, I interviewed one fantastic Indian woman. Turned out, she'd been schooled by Catholics.
  - zwischenzug 16y ago
    Indeed, that's why I didn't say: "all Indians are like this". It's just surprising how many graduates from Indian universities seem to be completely uneducated in a broader sense. It makes one realise the value of (or problems arising from) common unspoken assumptions.