4 ms·

One can't really un-release one's contacts to one of these data gobbling companies. Even then, I appreciate that we are raising this issue. It should be clear

One can't really un-release one's contacts to one of these data gobbling companies. Even then, I appreciate that we are raising this issue. It should be clear to anyone here that the moment to act on this is before your contacts get copied, not trying to get them un-copied later. Think of it as a betrayal of your contacts, that you sell them out (then ponder the likelihood that none of yours have done the same, it's probably infinitesimal.)

mdoms 6y ago
Contacts change over time.
dheera 6y ago
I solve this issue by simply not using the contacts feature on my phone. I just store phone numbers in a text file and memorize the 2 or 3 that I need to contact often.. Ironic, I know, but that's what it has come to. Welcome to 2020. In the vast majority of cases I just don't need to call most people. I mostly stick between instant messaging and (during pandemic) video calls and (non-pandemic) in-person meetings and just avoid the awkward middle ground of audio-but-no-video phone calls.
- shock 6y ago
  OpenContacts in F-Droid.
- Scarbutt 6y ago
  The problem I see with this is that now you don't know who's calling you and stuff like whatsapp will get annoying.
  - o-__-o 6y ago
    And your friends are still using apps that harvest YOUR contact data. So your contact graph is still determinable. When I changed my phone I decided to not give out my new number. Now all of the spam calls come in on my Google Voice number that I share with everyone and I only share my iMessage with specific people I trust.
  - kingofpandora 6y ago
    I'm going to guess that someone who doesn't use a phone's address book isn't going to use WhatsApp.
    - guide42 6y ago
      totally possible, make them write you first.
      - shock 6y ago
        There's an app on F-Droid that lets you initiate WhatsApp chats with just the phone number, without giving WhatsApp access to Contacts.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - dingaling 6y ago
      I use WhatsApp and deny it access to contacts, it just presents the phone number in the app instead. After a short time one's brain associates the 'last two' of the number with the person.
- ssss11 6y ago
  Sorry but this sounds diabolical... we need companies worthy of our trust so we can gain the benefit of the apps we’ve chosen to use, rather than avoiding them with manual workarounds. We need laws and penalties applied to companies that abuse our trust. (Yes i know, unfortunately its too late for the FAANG’s of our time)
  - keanebean86 6y ago
    An obvious idea is Apple/google could add a dontShare flag to the contacts. Or would that be too controversial? The os would just pretend those contacts don't exist when all contacts are requested. There could be a checkbox to share protected contacts on the permissions prompt in case you're trying to actually export them.
    - Nextgrid 6y ago
      A better idea would be to use regulation to outlaw malware/spyware that steals your contacts list, or pressure Apple/Google to actually do their job during app review and kick such malware from their store.
      - dheera 6y ago
        Regulation is generally useless since it only applies within a jurisdiction. Unless you can convince 200+ countries to adopt it as their formal law, said spyware could always find a place to call home and still infiltrate the world. GDPR is a good example of a law that the US sheepishly somehow chooses to obey EU law (wtf, why didn't the US obey the EU laws around recycling and energy and no free plastic grocery bags for the past decade? and all of a sudden they care about obeying GDPR?), but do Central/South American, African, Middle Eastern, and Asian countries take a crap about GDPR? Generally not. They don't care about EU law. It doesn't apply in their jurisdiction, and they are not sheep. That isn't to say privacy doesn't matter, it's just that the law needs to be locally implemented, not obeying some arbitrary EU interpretation of the idea that wasn't even discussed with them. As such, I think technical approaches are generally superior to regulatory approaches in user protection. They apply across the entire world instantly.
- luckman212 6y ago
  > just avoid the awkward middle ground of audio-but-no-video phone calls Off topic but: am I the only one who thinks video calls are awkward and the old-timey audio-only ones are preferable? I have a disdain for people walking down the street with their phone in an outstretched hand, having inane hour long conversations while virtual bunny ears, cat whiskers or horse heads adorn their faces. Not everyone wants to put on a performance every time they speak to you. Sometimes I just want to call and say hello without having to think about whether the shirt I'm wearing is cool.
  - dheera 6y ago
    Interesting. I actually find it somewhat jarring to take a call in the presence of other people. I'm used to real life where you talk and see people, and the people you see are the people who can hear and talk to you. With phone calls the existence of people around me that can hear half the conversation, aren't part of the conversation, and can't reply to the conversation, is utterly jarring and unnatural to me and I avoid it at all costs. I can't for the life of me answer the phone and be at ease when there is anyone else in the room. I also find it really hard to comprehend everything someone is saying without body language. That is also super unnatural to me. I read faces a lot. I'm just used to real life I guess.

mdoms 6y ago

Contacts change over time.

dheera 6y ago

I solve this issue by simply not using the contacts feature on my phone. I just store phone numbers in a text file and memorize the 2 or 3 that I need to contact often.. Ironic, I know, but that's what it has come to. Welcome to 2020. In the vast majority of cases I just don't need to call most people. I mostly stick between instant messaging and (during pandemic) video calls and (non-pandemic) in-person meetings and just avoid the awkward middle ground of audio-but-no-video phone calls.

shock 6y ago
OpenContacts in F-Droid.
Scarbutt 6y ago
The problem I see with this is that now you don't know who's calling you and stuff like whatsapp will get annoying.
- o-__-o 6y ago
  And your friends are still using apps that harvest YOUR contact data. So your contact graph is still determinable. When I changed my phone I decided to not give out my new number. Now all of the spam calls come in on my Google Voice number that I share with everyone and I only share my iMessage with specific people I trust.
- kingofpandora 6y ago
  I'm going to guess that someone who doesn't use a phone's address book isn't going to use WhatsApp.
  - guide42 6y ago
    totally possible, make them write you first.
    - shock 6y ago
      There's an app on F-Droid that lets you initiate WhatsApp chats with just the phone number, without giving WhatsApp access to Contacts.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - dingaling 6y ago
    I use WhatsApp and deny it access to contacts, it just presents the phone number in the app instead. After a short time one's brain associates the 'last two' of the number with the person.
ssss11 6y ago
Sorry but this sounds diabolical... we need companies worthy of our trust so we can gain the benefit of the apps we’ve chosen to use, rather than avoiding them with manual workarounds. We need laws and penalties applied to companies that abuse our trust. (Yes i know, unfortunately its too late for the FAANG’s of our time)
- keanebean86 6y ago
  An obvious idea is Apple/google could add a dontShare flag to the contacts. Or would that be too controversial? The os would just pretend those contacts don't exist when all contacts are requested. There could be a checkbox to share protected contacts on the permissions prompt in case you're trying to actually export them.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    A better idea would be to use regulation to outlaw malware/spyware that steals your contacts list, or pressure Apple/Google to actually do their job during app review and kick such malware from their store.
    - dheera 6y ago
      Regulation is generally useless since it only applies within a jurisdiction. Unless you can convince 200+ countries to adopt it as their formal law, said spyware could always find a place to call home and still infiltrate the world. GDPR is a good example of a law that the US sheepishly somehow chooses to obey EU law (wtf, why didn't the US obey the EU laws around recycling and energy and no free plastic grocery bags for the past decade? and all of a sudden they care about obeying GDPR?), but do Central/South American, African, Middle Eastern, and Asian countries take a crap about GDPR? Generally not. They don't care about EU law. It doesn't apply in their jurisdiction, and they are not sheep. That isn't to say privacy doesn't matter, it's just that the law needs to be locally implemented, not obeying some arbitrary EU interpretation of the idea that wasn't even discussed with them. As such, I think technical approaches are generally superior to regulatory approaches in user protection. They apply across the entire world instantly.
luckman212 6y ago
> just avoid the awkward middle ground of audio-but-no-video phone calls Off topic but: am I the only one who thinks video calls are awkward and the old-timey audio-only ones are preferable? I have a disdain for people walking down the street with their phone in an outstretched hand, having inane hour long conversations while virtual bunny ears, cat whiskers or horse heads adorn their faces. Not everyone wants to put on a performance every time they speak to you. Sometimes I just want to call and say hello without having to think about whether the shirt I'm wearing is cool.
- dheera 6y ago
  Interesting. I actually find it somewhat jarring to take a call in the presence of other people. I'm used to real life where you talk and see people, and the people you see are the people who can hear and talk to you. With phone calls the existence of people around me that can hear half the conversation, aren't part of the conversation, and can't reply to the conversation, is utterly jarring and unnatural to me and I avoid it at all costs. I can't for the life of me answer the phone and be at ease when there is anyone else in the room. I also find it really hard to comprehend everything someone is saying without body language. That is also super unnatural to me. I read faces a lot. I'm just used to real life I guess.