5 ms·

This. Many lawyers threaten and posture for a living. Don't let their empty threats bully you into submission if you've done nothing wrong.

shuaavi 6y ago
Palo Alto can easily cause us to put 500K USD into legal fees, and I guess they thought that we'll bail out due to this empty threat. We chose not to.
- pas 6y ago
  Why/how would they cause you to put that much into legal fees? You don't need to hire an attorney, and probably you can hire anyone (with a legal bar license), right? Just hire the cheapest one. Sure that might not be the brightest tactic, but claiming that they can "cause" this is very strange. (You might even get someone to file motions for you pro bono.)
  - otterley 6y ago
    > Just hire the cheapest one. Do you know what they call the person who graduated at the bottom of their law school class? "Counselor." Do not hire the cheapest lawyer you can find. The amount of work required to analyze this situation is a few hours at most; and the hourly-rate difference between a good lawyer and a bad lawyer is going to be far less than what it will cost you if you get bad advice. > You might even get someone to file motions for you pro bono No attorney worth a damn is going to provide a commercial entity pro bono representation.
pavel_lishin 6y ago
How do you tell whether you're doing something wrong or not without spending money on your own lawyer?
- wldcordeiro 6y ago
  Right? Just because it's normal for C&Ds to be sent doesn't mean it should be because they're obviously weaponized by large organizations.
- trentnix 6y ago
  That presumes a lawyer will give you good legal advice. I've been given poor legal advice before by a lawyer, and been given even worse tactical advice. I've gone against a lawyer's recommendations before when their explanation and recommendation did not jive with my reading and understanding. You should educate yourself and seek counsel if you believe you need it. Because ultimately the situation is no different than getting a physician's opinion or a consultant's opinion or whatever else - you seek that expertise because you feel you need it. And usually that means you have to pay for it. But a lawyer's opinion, even if it's a good opinion, doesn't inoculate you from being sued or threatened or whatever else an antagonizing party may do. But don't freak out. Everyone is terrified when they get their first lawyer letter. Everyone is outraged when they get their second. And when they get their third (or fourth or however long it takes to learn), they use it for toilet paper.
  - ryandrake 6y ago
    Can you expand on how one would educate themselves on this (besides getting a law degree), and how one would determine that they need legal counsel, besides having this vague feeling that they need it? Are there some rules of thumb that a normal, non-lawyer can follow to roughly gauge the seriousness of a written legal threat?
    - trentnix 6y ago
      Hopefully someone more educated than me will chime in, but inevitably a C&D or some other lawyer letter will reference law (for me, it was trademark law) or will reference a contract. I've gotten both kinds, and found that it was easier to educate myself regarding the threats made in reference to the contract than in reference to the law. Once you do some searching you'll get a better idea of whether you need legal counsel. And just because you receive a letter doesn't mean you need to respond no matter what absurd timeline the demanding letter might have suggested. Eventually they'll have to put up (and file a lawsuit) or shut up.
    - otterley 6y ago
      A good rule of thumb is that when an attorney sends you a cease and desist letter, you should hire an attorney to read it and give you advice on what to do and/or how to respond -- especially if you are inclined not to assent to the demands made. I know this, not only as an attorney today, but as someone who (before I got my law degree) did not do this and paid a very high price for my immaturity. Hiring an attorney could have saved me many thousands of dollars.
- CapitalistCartr 6y ago
  My wife went to law school. I know lots of lawyers. The spread between Justin (first in his class by a fat margin), and the bottom, oh, say, quarter of the class, is brutal.
  - no_wizard 6y ago
    Question I have... How bad is that lower quarter? Can you quantify that in any way?
    - CapitalistCartr 6y ago
      Justin relishes a fight; he's confident. He's creative in his thinking. Many lawyers are paper pushers. They file the right documents, fill out the right forms, but they can't think tactically to save their lives. They're never going to change the outcome of a case.
  - victorhooi 6y ago
    Sorry, I might have missed some context here - but which Justin are you referring to?

shuaavi 6y ago

Palo Alto can easily cause us to put 500K USD into legal fees, and I guess they thought that we'll bail out due to this empty threat. We chose not to.

pas 6y ago
Why/how would they cause you to put that much into legal fees? You don't need to hire an attorney, and probably you can hire anyone (with a legal bar license), right? Just hire the cheapest one. Sure that might not be the brightest tactic, but claiming that they can "cause" this is very strange. (You might even get someone to file motions for you pro bono.)
- otterley 6y ago
  > Just hire the cheapest one. Do you know what they call the person who graduated at the bottom of their law school class? "Counselor." Do not hire the cheapest lawyer you can find. The amount of work required to analyze this situation is a few hours at most; and the hourly-rate difference between a good lawyer and a bad lawyer is going to be far less than what it will cost you if you get bad advice. > You might even get someone to file motions for you pro bono No attorney worth a damn is going to provide a commercial entity pro bono representation.

pavel_lishin 6y ago

How do you tell whether you're doing something wrong or not without spending money on your own lawyer?

wldcordeiro 6y ago
Right? Just because it's normal for C&Ds to be sent doesn't mean it should be because they're obviously weaponized by large organizations.
trentnix 6y ago
That presumes a lawyer will give you good legal advice. I've been given poor legal advice before by a lawyer, and been given even worse tactical advice. I've gone against a lawyer's recommendations before when their explanation and recommendation did not jive with my reading and understanding. You should educate yourself and seek counsel if you believe you need it. Because ultimately the situation is no different than getting a physician's opinion or a consultant's opinion or whatever else - you seek that expertise because you feel you need it. And usually that means you have to pay for it. But a lawyer's opinion, even if it's a good opinion, doesn't inoculate you from being sued or threatened or whatever else an antagonizing party may do. But don't freak out. Everyone is terrified when they get their first lawyer letter. Everyone is outraged when they get their second. And when they get their third (or fourth or however long it takes to learn), they use it for toilet paper.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  Can you expand on how one would educate themselves on this (besides getting a law degree), and how one would determine that they need legal counsel, besides having this vague feeling that they need it? Are there some rules of thumb that a normal, non-lawyer can follow to roughly gauge the seriousness of a written legal threat?
  - trentnix 6y ago
    Hopefully someone more educated than me will chime in, but inevitably a C&D or some other lawyer letter will reference law (for me, it was trademark law) or will reference a contract. I've gotten both kinds, and found that it was easier to educate myself regarding the threats made in reference to the contract than in reference to the law. Once you do some searching you'll get a better idea of whether you need legal counsel. And just because you receive a letter doesn't mean you need to respond no matter what absurd timeline the demanding letter might have suggested. Eventually they'll have to put up (and file a lawsuit) or shut up.
  - otterley 6y ago
    A good rule of thumb is that when an attorney sends you a cease and desist letter, you should hire an attorney to read it and give you advice on what to do and/or how to respond -- especially if you are inclined not to assent to the demands made. I know this, not only as an attorney today, but as someone who (before I got my law degree) did not do this and paid a very high price for my immaturity. Hiring an attorney could have saved me many thousands of dollars.
CapitalistCartr 6y ago
My wife went to law school. I know lots of lawyers. The spread between Justin (first in his class by a fat margin), and the bottom, oh, say, quarter of the class, is brutal.
- no_wizard 6y ago
  Question I have... How bad is that lower quarter? Can you quantify that in any way?
  - CapitalistCartr 6y ago
    Justin relishes a fight; he's confident. He's creative in his thinking. Many lawyers are paper pushers. They file the right documents, fill out the right forms, but they can't think tactically to save their lives. They're never going to change the outcome of a case.
- victorhooi 6y ago
  Sorry, I might have missed some context here - but which Justin are you referring to?