5 ms·

Dune is a story about a chosen son of nobility, coming from a very Europe-like planet to rule over a very Middle East-like planet where everything has Arabic-so

by woah 6y ago

Dune is a story about a chosen son of nobility, coming from a very Europe-like planet to rule over a very Middle East-like planet where everything has Arabic-sounding names. He is somehow instantly accepted as a messiah by the local band of noble savages and, along with his family’s mercenaries, leads them in a “holy war” against his personal enemies in an effort to climb the political ladder. It’s got some cool imagery, but it’s not like some kind of profound wisdom that needs to be safeguarded.

_qulr 6y ago
Not sure if we still need a "spoiler alert" for 1969, but if you've read Dune without also reading Dune Messiah, you've unfortunately missed the whole point. The first book is merely a setup. If I may be allowed to mix my sci-fi metaphors, "It's a trap!" The first novel was never intended by Herbert to be "self-contained", but the second novel never achieved the same popularity as the first — perhaps for obvious reasons, if you've read it. It's not the sequel one expects.
- jfengel 6y ago
  I've heard that it's disappointing, which is too bad. The first novel is one of the true greats of the field, the kind where you can feel the existence of a deeper history and crave to know more. Only Tolkien did it better, and he only by being obsessive about it. Unfortunately, it's really hard to actually fulfill the reader's craving without disappointing them. Friends have pushed me to read the rest of the Dune books, but I'm reluctant. Not because the story is unexpected -- that sounds promising, actually -- but because if it's not well-written, it would feel like it taints them gem I already know.
  - _qulr 6y ago
    It's well-written. All 6 books are well-written. IMO the later novels are every bit as good as the earlier novels. (We shall not discuss the son's unfortunate knockoffs.) I suspect some readers were disappointed with books 2 and 3 because the story didn't go the way they wanted. But that's because the sly devil Frank was teaching us a lesson. :-)
    - jfengel 6y ago
      Thanks for the recommendation. I will take a crack at it. It's a little surprising to me that readers would be demanding what they expect from the books. The whole point of Dune is that politics is a multi-layered process of wheels within wheels within wheels. It should come as no surprise that everything would turn out to be a head fake -- that's so much of the enjoyment of it.
  - animal531 6y ago
    Think of it being well-written, but turning far more metaphysical. For myself, I recently re-read Dune (it still holds up amazingly well), but I found myself not really enjoying the sequels.
    - _qulr 6y ago
      > Think of it being well-written, but turning far more metaphysical. Agreed, that's a fair characterization.
AndrewBissell 6y ago
> He is somehow instantly accepted as a messiah The Missionaria Protectiva is referenced at quite a few points in the novels. It's never explained in too much depth, but it's clear that Herbert was not proposing that indigenous tribes have some inherent propensity to follow a white savior. The acceptance also certainly is not instant, Paul has to demonstrate facility with numerous Fremen customs and show his leadership chops over a period of years before he comes to lead them. The task is only really complete when he becomes the first male successfully to transmute the Water of Life. David Brin has some good think pieces about how 'Dune' is a warning and why the Atreides are not the good guys of the novels (at least, not at first).
- _qulr 6y ago
  > The Missionaria Protectiva is referenced at quite a few points in the novels. Right. The Bene Gesserit had spent millennia spreading "myths" (AKA propaganda) throughout various societies for their own purposes, i.e., "politics". Herbert is alluding to how mythology and religion have always been exploited to serve the selfish interests of those in power.
webmaven 6y ago
> Dune is a story about a chosen son of nobility, coming from a very Europe-like planet Was it Europe-like? ISTR that it was a water world, and exported rice.

by woah 6y ago

_qulr 6y ago

Not sure if we still need a "spoiler alert" for 1969, but if you've read Dune without also reading Dune Messiah, you've unfortunately missed the whole point. The first book is merely a setup. If I may be allowed to mix my sci-fi metaphors, "It's a trap!" The first novel was never intended by Herbert to be "self-contained", but the second novel never achieved the same popularity as the first — perhaps for obvious reasons, if you've read it. It's not the sequel one expects.

jfengel 6y ago
I've heard that it's disappointing, which is too bad. The first novel is one of the true greats of the field, the kind where you can feel the existence of a deeper history and crave to know more. Only Tolkien did it better, and he only by being obsessive about it. Unfortunately, it's really hard to actually fulfill the reader's craving without disappointing them. Friends have pushed me to read the rest of the Dune books, but I'm reluctant. Not because the story is unexpected -- that sounds promising, actually -- but because if it's not well-written, it would feel like it taints them gem I already know.
- _qulr 6y ago
  It's well-written. All 6 books are well-written. IMO the later novels are every bit as good as the earlier novels. (We shall not discuss the son's unfortunate knockoffs.) I suspect some readers were disappointed with books 2 and 3 because the story didn't go the way they wanted. But that's because the sly devil Frank was teaching us a lesson. :-)
  - jfengel 6y ago
    Thanks for the recommendation. I will take a crack at it. It's a little surprising to me that readers would be demanding what they expect from the books. The whole point of Dune is that politics is a multi-layered process of wheels within wheels within wheels. It should come as no surprise that everything would turn out to be a head fake -- that's so much of the enjoyment of it.
- animal531 6y ago
  Think of it being well-written, but turning far more metaphysical. For myself, I recently re-read Dune (it still holds up amazingly well), but I found myself not really enjoying the sequels.
  - _qulr 6y ago
    > Think of it being well-written, but turning far more metaphysical. Agreed, that's a fair characterization.

AndrewBissell 6y ago

> He is somehow instantly accepted as a messiah The Missionaria Protectiva is referenced at quite a few points in the novels. It's never explained in too much depth, but it's clear that Herbert was not proposing that indigenous tribes have some inherent propensity to follow a white savior. The acceptance also certainly is not instant, Paul has to demonstrate facility with numerous Fremen customs and show his leadership chops over a period of years before he comes to lead them. The task is only really complete when he becomes the first male successfully to transmute the Water of Life. David Brin has some good think pieces about how 'Dune' is a warning and why the Atreides are not the good guys of the novels (at least, not at first).

_qulr 6y ago
> The Missionaria Protectiva is referenced at quite a few points in the novels. Right. The Bene Gesserit had spent millennia spreading "myths" (AKA propaganda) throughout various societies for their own purposes, i.e., "politics". Herbert is alluding to how mythology and religion have always been exploited to serve the selfish interests of those in power.

webmaven 6y ago

> Dune is a story about a chosen son of nobility, coming from a very Europe-like planet Was it Europe-like? ISTR that it was a water world, and exported rice.