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Governments are still (largely) accountable to the people, in contrast to corporations, which are not accountable whatsoever (except through gov regulation). Yo

Governments are still (largely) accountable to the people, in contrast to corporations, which are not accountable whatsoever (except through gov regulation). Your comment is just detraction

121789 6y ago
that's interesting. I can delete my FB account or Amazon account. how can I do this with my government?
- urtie 6y ago
  Move to a different country. Apply for citizenship. Renounce your original citizenship. Rules may apply...
  - jonny_eh 6y ago
    Vote. By voting you can ditch the old government and install a new one.
  - bmelton 6y ago
    Note: The cancellation fees for US Citizenship can be quite high!
- f0rmatfunction 6y ago
  That's missing the point. Deleting your FB account doesn't affect FB's power or practices. Does it make you slightly less directly affected by their nonsense? Sure, but it's often a false sense of security. If disinformation on FB results in a different outcome to your election, or prevents parents from thinking a COVID vaccine is safe, or whatever else, that affects your life even if you're not on the platform. You have a say in your government's leadership. Don't like the President? Vote them out. Don't like Zuck? Nothing you can do about it.
- AlexandrB 6y ago
  How do I delete my FB shadow profile? Do I need to create an FB account first or what? How do I get onto sites that use ReCaptha (that's potentially anything behind CloudFlare BTW) without letting Google hoover up a bunch of identifying information? How do I delete the data that Google collects with ReCaptha?
- paradox242 6y ago
  And yet even deleting these services or choosing not to use them yourself does not keep them from tracking you. We have long known about "shadow profiles" that for example Facebook uses to collect data on individuals that don't (yet, they hope) have Facebook accounts. As far as governments go, we could all become anarchists be done with them, but if you think for even a few seconds about it you would realize that this enormous vacuum of power would be filled by something. Corporations, rival nations with their government still intact, military warlords, or new political factions seeking to establish new governments. We have thousands of years of history that shows this pattern emerging again and again to the point that it is practically a natural law of power. The only check on power is greater or equal power. Ideally, you want this power to be answerable to the greatest number of people that this power is intended to serve. You may recall a lot of smart people during something called the Enlightenment spending a lot of time and energy on experimenting with different forms of government that met these criteria and still managing to not quite get it right. Many people in the West live in societies multiple iterations down the line from those established in the 18th and 19th century revolutions and there are still glaring issues. What do you suggest instead?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
BurningFrog 6y ago
Corporations are accountable to their customers. If people stop paying for their products, they cease to exist. Corporations are also accountable to governments, as this story illustrates. If US courts and/or legislators decide they want it, Google ceases to exist. Economists think of this in terms of "Exit vs Voice". With governments, you have a voice - one vote for deciding who's in charge - but no way to exit, even when your side loses. With corporations you can exit - stop shopping at Target - but no voice in how Target is run. Both models have pros and cons, and it's good to understand how they differ, and what situations they're suited for.
- horsawlarway 6y ago
  Try exiting Google or Amazon. It's borderline impossible. Basically - how do I exit a company if I'm not the one choosing to use their services? I cannot use the internet and avoid Google's ads. I cannot use the internet and avoid Amazon's hosting. I cannot exit the internet because I literally make my living with it, the competitive disadvantage of doing so is SO great with the way we've structured services and life in general that it doesn't really work.
  - BurningFrog 6y ago
    We probably disagree about how bad that is, but I think it's a valid argument within the voice/exit framework.

Governments are still (largely) accountable to the people, in contrast to corporations, which are not accountable whatsoever (except through gov regulation). Your comment is just detraction

121789 6y ago

that's interesting. I can delete my FB account or Amazon account. how can I do this with my government?

urtie 6y ago
Move to a different country. Apply for citizenship. Renounce your original citizenship. Rules may apply...
- jonny_eh 6y ago
  Vote. By voting you can ditch the old government and install a new one.
- bmelton 6y ago
  Note: The cancellation fees for US Citizenship can be quite high!
f0rmatfunction 6y ago
That's missing the point. Deleting your FB account doesn't affect FB's power or practices. Does it make you slightly less directly affected by their nonsense? Sure, but it's often a false sense of security. If disinformation on FB results in a different outcome to your election, or prevents parents from thinking a COVID vaccine is safe, or whatever else, that affects your life even if you're not on the platform. You have a say in your government's leadership. Don't like the President? Vote them out. Don't like Zuck? Nothing you can do about it.
AlexandrB 6y ago
How do I delete my FB shadow profile? Do I need to create an FB account first or what? How do I get onto sites that use ReCaptha (that's potentially anything behind CloudFlare BTW) without letting Google hoover up a bunch of identifying information? How do I delete the data that Google collects with ReCaptha?
paradox242 6y ago
And yet even deleting these services or choosing not to use them yourself does not keep them from tracking you. We have long known about "shadow profiles" that for example Facebook uses to collect data on individuals that don't (yet, they hope) have Facebook accounts. As far as governments go, we could all become anarchists be done with them, but if you think for even a few seconds about it you would realize that this enormous vacuum of power would be filled by something. Corporations, rival nations with their government still intact, military warlords, or new political factions seeking to establish new governments. We have thousands of years of history that shows this pattern emerging again and again to the point that it is practically a natural law of power. The only check on power is greater or equal power. Ideally, you want this power to be answerable to the greatest number of people that this power is intended to serve. You may recall a lot of smart people during something called the Enlightenment spending a lot of time and energy on experimenting with different forms of government that met these criteria and still managing to not quite get it right. Many people in the West live in societies multiple iterations down the line from those established in the 18th and 19th century revolutions and there are still glaring issues. What do you suggest instead?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

BurningFrog 6y ago

Corporations are accountable to their customers. If people stop paying for their products, they cease to exist. Corporations are also accountable to governments, as this story illustrates. If US courts and/or legislators decide they want it, Google ceases to exist. Economists think of this in terms of "Exit vs Voice". With governments, you have a voice - one vote for deciding who's in charge - but no way to exit, even when your side loses. With corporations you can exit - stop shopping at Target - but no voice in how Target is run. Both models have pros and cons, and it's good to understand how they differ, and what situations they're suited for.

horsawlarway 6y ago
Try exiting Google or Amazon. It's borderline impossible. Basically - how do I exit a company if I'm not the one choosing to use their services? I cannot use the internet and avoid Google's ads. I cannot use the internet and avoid Amazon's hosting. I cannot exit the internet because I literally make my living with it, the competitive disadvantage of doing so is SO great with the way we've structured services and life in general that it doesn't really work.
- BurningFrog 6y ago
  We probably disagree about how bad that is, but I think it's a valid argument within the voice/exit framework.