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Before someone else says it: Polish people are usually very bemused by the Bletchley Park story, because the Brits barely ever mention that they built on early

Before someone else says it: Polish people are usually very bemused by the Bletchley Park story, because the Brits barely ever mention that they built on early work by the Polish cryptographers [1]. Enigma evolved over the years, needing further work, but as of mid-1939, Enigma was broken by the Poles. The British took over, and achieved huge things on their own too (while also excluding the Polish cryptographers, now UK-based, from the project), very possibly doing a lot more than the Poles ever did. But I see that even when saying Bletchley Park was 'over-rated', even then they can't give credit where it's due. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Enigma#Polish_breakthroughs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Enigma#Po...

nickik 6y ago
In pretty much every series academic work this is very well documented. But equally the story of Bletchley is one industrial scale, not just essentially what I would consider a prove of concept. But lets be honest, about every single thing in WW2 there is nationalist 'No I did it first' argument between all the nations.
- rich_sasha 6y ago
  All true. And yet... No one monopolises D-Day. The US make a point to remark on the work of the Navajo code-speakers. Somehow, Battle of Britain is celebrated as a multi-national cooperation. But not Enigma-breaking, that was just plucky Brits in Bletchley Park. I understand and respect national myth-building, equally I feel credit, in popular literature, is under-attributed.
  - mathw 6y ago
    > Somehow, Battle of Britain is celebrated as a multi-national cooperation. Not that I've ever noticed. I don't think I learned until I was 17 or 18 that there were non-British pilots involved on the British side. And I live in England! We should know! I'm glad the article isn't quite as blunt as the headline suggests. If GCHQ are saying that public perception of Bletchley's role is overrated... well, they're entirely correct about that. But if you actually go to Bletchley Park they're quite clear about the role of Polish intelligence in breaking the Enigma machine.
    - yread 6y ago
      They weren't just "involved" - 5 of the top 10 aces were not from Britain (2 not even from Commonwealth) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Few#Leading_aces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Few#Leading_aces
    - ksec 6y ago
      As some other comments have mentioned, officially Brits didn't write off any polish contribution from any official or unofficial Documentation. And in all Historic account or documentary, Poland were often mentioned for their early effort in braking the enigma. It is just the mainstream media never report it, for all sort of reasons. It is like Thomas Edison invented the Light bulb. Everything gets dumped down to easily understandable pieces for public consumption.
  - PaulAJ 6y ago
    Well, there was the notorious case of the Polish Spitfire on a BNP poster. https://www.theregister.com/2009/03/04/polish_spitfire/ https://www.theregister.com/2009/03/04/polish_spitfire/ Presumably the BNP didn't know about the multi-national bit.
  - srtjstjsj 6y ago
    The Eastern Bloc was downplayed in the West thanks to the Cold War. Codetalkers are remembered not out of respect but because it's a rare neat trick (and it feeds into American Exceptionalism in a fascinating way.)
m0nty 6y ago
> even then they can't give credit where it's due You might as well say not enough credit goes to Tommy Flowers, a man I have always admired for his ground-breaking work building Colossus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Flowers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Flowers The popular imagination is not renowned for its grasp of detail, but the histories give due credit. I would just say, antagonistic comments like "the Brits barely mention" and "they can't give credit where it's due" is nationalistic nonsense which has no place here.
- rich_sasha 6y ago
  > I would just say, antagonistic comments like "the Brits barely mention" and "they can't give credit where it's due" is nationalistic nonsense which has no place here. It is an empirical observation. So not sure is expressing "nationalistic nonsense".
  - m0nty 6y ago
    There's nothing empirical about it, it's just that journalists are not bound to mention the Polish contribution when discussing Enigma, just as they don't mention many other nuances and wrinkles in the story. The histories (many written by British historians) most certainly do mention it, so your observation is more like "journalists paint with a broader brush than historians and miss out much of the detail." Well, who knew?
- goatinaboat 6y ago
  You might as well say not enough credit goes to Tommy Flowers, a man I have always admired for his ground-breaking work building Colossus. Well that is the class system, Tommy was working-class whereas Alan Turing was a posh boy who went to boarding school and Cambridge. So of course he was airbrushed out.
  - m0nty 6y ago
    There's also a certain prejudice against people who do practical things, which I have certainly been aware of while working in IT.

nickik 6y ago

In pretty much every series academic work this is very well documented. But equally the story of Bletchley is one industrial scale, not just essentially what I would consider a prove of concept. But lets be honest, about every single thing in WW2 there is nationalist 'No I did it first' argument between all the nations.

rich_sasha 6y ago
All true. And yet... No one monopolises D-Day. The US make a point to remark on the work of the Navajo code-speakers. Somehow, Battle of Britain is celebrated as a multi-national cooperation. But not Enigma-breaking, that was just plucky Brits in Bletchley Park. I understand and respect national myth-building, equally I feel credit, in popular literature, is under-attributed.
- mathw 6y ago
  > Somehow, Battle of Britain is celebrated as a multi-national cooperation. Not that I've ever noticed. I don't think I learned until I was 17 or 18 that there were non-British pilots involved on the British side. And I live in England! We should know! I'm glad the article isn't quite as blunt as the headline suggests. If GCHQ are saying that public perception of Bletchley's role is overrated... well, they're entirely correct about that. But if you actually go to Bletchley Park they're quite clear about the role of Polish intelligence in breaking the Enigma machine.
  - yread 6y ago
    They weren't just "involved" - 5 of the top 10 aces were not from Britain (2 not even from Commonwealth) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Few#Leading_aces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Few#Leading_aces
  - ksec 6y ago
    As some other comments have mentioned, officially Brits didn't write off any polish contribution from any official or unofficial Documentation. And in all Historic account or documentary, Poland were often mentioned for their early effort in braking the enigma. It is just the mainstream media never report it, for all sort of reasons. It is like Thomas Edison invented the Light bulb. Everything gets dumped down to easily understandable pieces for public consumption.
- PaulAJ 6y ago
  Well, there was the notorious case of the Polish Spitfire on a BNP poster. https://www.theregister.com/2009/03/04/polish_spitfire/ https://www.theregister.com/2009/03/04/polish_spitfire/ Presumably the BNP didn't know about the multi-national bit.
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  The Eastern Bloc was downplayed in the West thanks to the Cold War. Codetalkers are remembered not out of respect but because it's a rare neat trick (and it feeds into American Exceptionalism in a fascinating way.)

m0nty 6y ago

> even then they can't give credit where it's due You might as well say not enough credit goes to Tommy Flowers, a man I have always admired for his ground-breaking work building Colossus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Flowers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Flowers The popular imagination is not renowned for its grasp of detail, but the histories give due credit. I would just say, antagonistic comments like "the Brits barely mention" and "they can't give credit where it's due" is nationalistic nonsense which has no place here.

rich_sasha 6y ago
> I would just say, antagonistic comments like "the Brits barely mention" and "they can't give credit where it's due" is nationalistic nonsense which has no place here. It is an empirical observation. So not sure is expressing "nationalistic nonsense".
- m0nty 6y ago
  There's nothing empirical about it, it's just that journalists are not bound to mention the Polish contribution when discussing Enigma, just as they don't mention many other nuances and wrinkles in the story. The histories (many written by British historians) most certainly do mention it, so your observation is more like "journalists paint with a broader brush than historians and miss out much of the detail." Well, who knew?
goatinaboat 6y ago
You might as well say not enough credit goes to Tommy Flowers, a man I have always admired for his ground-breaking work building Colossus. Well that is the class system, Tommy was working-class whereas Alan Turing was a posh boy who went to boarding school and Cambridge. So of course he was airbrushed out.
- m0nty 6y ago
  There's also a certain prejudice against people who do practical things, which I have certainly been aware of while working in IT.