5 ms·

So an American with $2M to invest and a desire to live in NZ can simply invest in equities, bonds, and real estate and become a citizen in 4 years? And once yo

So an American with $2M to invest and a desire to live in NZ can simply invest in equities, bonds, and real estate and become a citizen in 4 years? And once you're a citizen, you enjoy unlimited social and health benefits indefinitely? Can someone from NZ tell me why this shouldn't be my retirement plan?

zdkl 6y ago
Not from NZ, but consider this: do you want to San Francisco-ize (multiply living costs, entrench a landlord caste & create weird incentives for local politics) the place? Because lots of foreign money simply walking into a heretofore sedate local real estate and business ecosystem is how you do that. Cf. Toronto, SF, Paris, London, Munich &c
- mkl 6y ago
  > Not from NZ [...] sedate local real estate Clearly! House prices here are very high already. See e.g. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2017/03/new-zealand-housing-most-unaffordable-in-the-world-the-economist.html https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2017/03/new-zealand-hou..., https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/83750475/nz-tops-imfs-housing-unaffordability-list https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/83750475/nz-tops-imfs...
  - Open-Sourcery 6y ago
    And I am a little hopeful (but doubtful) that might be starting to change. Massive numbers of houses have been consented to be built (especially in the last few years). But just building more probably won't be a permanent solution. https://www.stats.govt.nz/topics/housing https://www.stats.govt.nz/topics/housing https://www.hud.govt.nz/news-and-resources/statistics-and-research/housing-affordability-measure-ham/experimental-housing-affordability-index/ https://www.hud.govt.nz/news-and-resources/statistics-and-re... https://www.imf.org/external/research/housing/index.htm https://www.imf.org/external/research/housing/index.htm
- sorenbouma 6y ago
  Auckland already has one of the highest house price:median income ratios in the world.
philliphaydon 6y ago
Alot of people from China / India who get rejected in Australia, will go to NZ to do just that, because once an NZ Citizen, you can live/work in Australia. Edit: Well maybe not alot, but when I lived in NZ 15 years ago, it was enough that Australia would complain about it.
- techie128 6y ago
  Australia complains a lot, about many things... ;)
  - philliphaydon 6y ago
    Especially if kiwis are involved :D
- teruakohatu 6y ago
  Australia retaliated and now it is very hard for kiwis to become citizens of Australia or get the same benefits as citizens or permanent residents.
  - philliphaydon 6y ago
    I think that's two different things tho. Alot of kiwis were coming to Australia and going on the dole right away. So alot of the benefits only kick in after residing in the country for minimum 1 year. But the benefits still exist. I was referring to those who were rejected for residency in Australia, gain citizenship in New Zealand, then move to Australia to live/work. I believe if you were born in New Zealand, its still (relatively) easy to get Citizenship in Australia, but if you weren't born in NZ and have NZ citizenship, it's much harder.
    - aussiegeek 6y ago
      It's actually very hard for Kiwis to get citizenship, because the special category visa that lets them live here permanently isn't actually permanent residency, and so there isn't a path to citizenship. (Source: Kiwi friend who was trying to get citizenship for himself and his kids who were born here)
bingerman 6y ago
If you seriously consider enjoying "unlimited" social and health benefits of NZ, you may just retire immediately with $2M in bank and lead more luxurious life in most places in the world no matter if you are 60 or 20 years old. IIRC $2M is enough to "buy" a Swiss citizenship too, so that kind of money really enables you to live basically anywhere in the world and you need a specific retirement plan only if you want to spend a lot of cash regularly for the rest of your life. Personally I would not even think about working to get paid anymore if I had even $1M, but ofc that's just me and my modest living standards.
ivanhoe 6y ago
You can do it for even less in most of EU countries. You just need to get a job or create a company to get a work visa, and then stay for 5 or 6 years, learn some basic language and that's it.
- refurb 6y ago
  Indeed. Portugal has their Golden Visa which only requires a 500k EUR investment in real estate. You get temporary residency and potential permanent residency or citizenship after 5 years. It's kind of interesting to dig into. The residency requirements are quite low - 7 days in the first year, 14 days for subsequent 2 year period). So by the 5 year mark, you'd only need to spend 35 days in country. There are even companies that will find real estate for you, rent it out and guarantee 100% return of capital after 5 years. Turn key solution to EU residency! [1] [1]https://www.artoncapital.com/global-citizen-programs/portugal/ https://www.artoncapital.com/global-citizen-programs/portuga...
hef19898 6y ago
If it social and health benefits, just relocate to any EU country with a local contract. You would beed a visa, si, but once here you are covered like everyone else.

zdkl 6y ago

Not from NZ, but consider this: do you want to San Francisco-ize (multiply living costs, entrench a landlord caste & create weird incentives for local politics) the place? Because lots of foreign money simply walking into a heretofore sedate local real estate and business ecosystem is how you do that. Cf. Toronto, SF, Paris, London, Munich &c

mkl 6y ago
> Not from NZ [...] sedate local real estate Clearly! House prices here are very high already. See e.g. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2017/03/new-zealand-housing-most-unaffordable-in-the-world-the-economist.html https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2017/03/new-zealand-hou..., https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/83750475/nz-tops-imfs-housing-unaffordability-list https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/83750475/nz-tops-imfs...
- Open-Sourcery 6y ago
  And I am a little hopeful (but doubtful) that might be starting to change. Massive numbers of houses have been consented to be built (especially in the last few years). But just building more probably won't be a permanent solution. https://www.stats.govt.nz/topics/housing https://www.stats.govt.nz/topics/housing https://www.hud.govt.nz/news-and-resources/statistics-and-research/housing-affordability-measure-ham/experimental-housing-affordability-index/ https://www.hud.govt.nz/news-and-resources/statistics-and-re... https://www.imf.org/external/research/housing/index.htm https://www.imf.org/external/research/housing/index.htm
sorenbouma 6y ago
Auckland already has one of the highest house price:median income ratios in the world.

philliphaydon 6y ago

Alot of people from China / India who get rejected in Australia, will go to NZ to do just that, because once an NZ Citizen, you can live/work in Australia. Edit: Well maybe not alot, but when I lived in NZ 15 years ago, it was enough that Australia would complain about it.

techie128 6y ago
Australia complains a lot, about many things... ;)
- philliphaydon 6y ago
  Especially if kiwis are involved :D
teruakohatu 6y ago
Australia retaliated and now it is very hard for kiwis to become citizens of Australia or get the same benefits as citizens or permanent residents.
- philliphaydon 6y ago
  I think that's two different things tho. Alot of kiwis were coming to Australia and going on the dole right away. So alot of the benefits only kick in after residing in the country for minimum 1 year. But the benefits still exist. I was referring to those who were rejected for residency in Australia, gain citizenship in New Zealand, then move to Australia to live/work. I believe if you were born in New Zealand, its still (relatively) easy to get Citizenship in Australia, but if you weren't born in NZ and have NZ citizenship, it's much harder.
  - aussiegeek 6y ago
    It's actually very hard for Kiwis to get citizenship, because the special category visa that lets them live here permanently isn't actually permanent residency, and so there isn't a path to citizenship. (Source: Kiwi friend who was trying to get citizenship for himself and his kids who were born here)

bingerman 6y ago

If you seriously consider enjoying "unlimited" social and health benefits of NZ, you may just retire immediately with $2M in bank and lead more luxurious life in most places in the world no matter if you are 60 or 20 years old. IIRC $2M is enough to "buy" a Swiss citizenship too, so that kind of money really enables you to live basically anywhere in the world and you need a specific retirement plan only if you want to spend a lot of cash regularly for the rest of your life. Personally I would not even think about working to get paid anymore if I had even $1M, but ofc that's just me and my modest living standards.

ivanhoe 6y ago

You can do it for even less in most of EU countries. You just need to get a job or create a company to get a work visa, and then stay for 5 or 6 years, learn some basic language and that's it.

refurb 6y ago
Indeed. Portugal has their Golden Visa which only requires a 500k EUR investment in real estate. You get temporary residency and potential permanent residency or citizenship after 5 years. It's kind of interesting to dig into. The residency requirements are quite low - 7 days in the first year, 14 days for subsequent 2 year period). So by the 5 year mark, you'd only need to spend 35 days in country. There are even companies that will find real estate for you, rent it out and guarantee 100% return of capital after 5 years. Turn key solution to EU residency! [1] [1]https://www.artoncapital.com/global-citizen-programs/portugal/ https://www.artoncapital.com/global-citizen-programs/portuga...

hef19898 6y ago

If it social and health benefits, just relocate to any EU country with a local contract. You would beed a visa, si, but once here you are covered like everyone else.