> No. I would be comfortable recommending Signal (or WhatsApp) to a nontechnical friend and communicating with them on it I kind of like Signal. It seems like

> No. I would be comfortable recommending Signal (or WhatsApp) to a nontechnical friend and communicating with them on it I kind of like Signal. It seems like an honest effort for a really great goal and the dedication as well as some of the things they have achieved seems seriously impressive! As for WhatsApp, you realize that they upload all your chats to the cloud, unencrypted, easily retrievable by you and whoever you chat with, and that getting rid of them will take effort on both sides? You are aware that Facebook probably use your metadata to feed their algorithms? Edit: my point is that as engineers and technologists it is so easy to be blinded by tbe technical rick solid technical implementation if an (important) part and forget that security depends on all parts of the puzzle. - End-to-end doesn't matter if the endpoints by default upload everything to cloud storage unencrypted. If it is going to end up unencrypted in Googles cloud you can just as well use gmail. That way you won't make your metadata accessible to Facebook at the same time. - End-to-end only means so much when an adversary is running the routing: they cannot know the contents of your messages as they fly through their networks but if you don't trust Facebook, do you really want them to know who you talk to and when?