4 ms·
If a state passed a law that corporations may not put a kosher or halal marking on foods they sell, would you find that law constitutional? (Certainly it's not
by geofft 6y ago
If a state passed a law that corporations may not put a kosher or halal marking on foods they sell, would you find that law constitutional?
(Certainly it's not interfering with the corporation's freedom of religion interests, is it? Corporations don't practice religion!)
The problem here is that there's no simple or intuitive description of the solution we want besides "The right to free speech does not extend to the right to spend unlimited amounts of money on electioneering." (And that should apply to individuals just the same as corporations.) I'd wholeheartedly agree with that, but it needs a constitutional amendment - there isn't another way out.
- klyrs 6y ago> If a state passed a law that corporations may not put a kosher or halal marking on foods they sell, would you find that law constitutional? No, but not for the company, but for the harm that would cause harm to practitioners of their respective religions.
- geofft 6y agoBut the companies are under no obligation to include this information. If they are legally forbidden from including it, how does it become a violation of my rights as a practitioner when it is not a violation for them to just not bother? Though maybe bringing in religion makes this distracting... Do you think a state government may permissibly make a law banning the sale of transgender flags? You're still free to make your own or even sell them as individuals. Or maybe more directly to Citizen's United - can the government ban all non-indie films that negatively depict the military? Individuals have a free speech right to make whatever films they want, but do corporations?
- rayiner 6y agoThis is the basic problem with the government’s case in Citizens United. There is no real limiting principle to the law; the government actually prosecuted a dinky little non-profit, not a giant corporation, making for a fantastic test case; and the government admitted at oral argument before the Supreme Court that there was no limiting principle to its theory of the first amendment that would keep the government from banning books.
- Reelin 6y ago> kosher or halal marking on foods they sell, would you find that law constitutional ... no? It would be a law more or less targeting a particular religion. That's against both the letter and the spirit of the constitution. Unless I'm missing something here? > (Certainly it's not interfering with the corporation's freedom of religion interests, is it? Corporations don't practice religion!) Serious question: Why can't they? They're groups of people after all. (I'm not sure how that would fit with protected classes under federal employment law though. If a company openly supports a particular religion is that potentially a form of discrimination?)
- ummonk 6y agoThat's the point of the analogy. Rights like freedom of religion and freedom of speech must extend to corporations as well.
- Reelin 6y agoI tend to agree, but I think (perhaps mistakenly) that OP was trying to illustrate via analogy that it's more complicated than that. I wasn't able to see the point being made with the analogy though (hence my reply).
- 8note 6y agoI'd see it as infringing on the religious shopper's rights rather than the corporations though. That makes it towards impossible to practice your religion
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- staticautomatic 6y agoPreliminarily, I do think such a law would be constitutional. However, you haven’t said why you think it wouldn’t be, so I’m not sure what exactly you’re inviting me to argue.
- geofft 6y agoI think it wouldn't be constitutional on the same grounds as Citizens United, namely, it would be a violation of the right to free speech. If I have a constitutional right as an individual to label things kosher or halal, why would I lose that right if I go into business with some friends? (I'm assuming I have this right as an individual, right?) I think it is a consistent view that I do lose that right when I incorporate to be clear, and you could probably design a coherent society on that model - I just don't totally follow why / what the constitutional grounds are.
- mrguyorama 6y agoYOU don't lose that right, but the corporation is never given that right
- geofft 6y agoWhat's the difference, in practice? Not only can the corporation fire me for putting such a label on the food, they must, if such a law exists - if they don't, they're liable. So, let's say I'm a baker selling, I dunno, kosher cookies. I can sell them to my friends and say, "By the way, these are kosher!" They're popular with my friends, and so I decide to make a business out of it. As soon as I do that, the business is never given the right of free speech, and the business is now given an obligation to prevent me-the-individual from saying certain things in the course of my job duties. That is, if I continue saying the same thing I said yesterday, the government can shut down my business. You'd say that this is constitutional?
- tomp 6y agoCan corporations put “kosher” markings on food that is not kosher? Isn’t that already a limit on free speech?
- geofft 6y agoI think the answer is that if it's misleading/deceptive they can't under trade practices laws, and yes, I'd certainly call that a restriction on free speech, but it's one that applies equally to individuals and corporations.
- sterlind 6y agoIt'd be trademark infringement. the circle K thing is a trademark that a private Kosher organization allows companies to put on certified foods after they're satisfied with the inspection (as far as I recall.)