5 ms·

> I’d also contest the idea that Matrix can never have a client as usable as Signal, but I’ll agree that there isn’t one yet. After being around for multiple y

> I’d also contest the idea that Matrix can never have a client as usable as Signal, but I’ll agree that there isn’t one yet. After being around for multiple years and having not managed to do it even once (or come close) I think I am inclined to bet they won't. Or they'd just focus on being enterprise software (which I think they are doing and they must if they want to earn money). Of all the IM apps Matrix is my most favourite in the spirit and least favourite in usability. Any attempt to introduce friends and family has failed miserably. Irony is, I myself was not convinced and I was trying to convert them.

ryukafalz 6y ago
I mean, keep in mind that while Element is effectively the reference client, it's also still just one client. It's not trying to be a Signal-style messenger, it's trying to be something like Slack - and at that I'd say it succeeds. There are other clients in development that are closer UI-wise to your typical mobile messenger, e.g. https://dittochat.org/ https://dittochat.org/
- _-___________-_ 6y ago
  Having spent a decent amount of time reading and attempting to implement small parts of the horrendous mess that is the Matrix protocol, I'd bet decent money that there will never be any reasonably complete alternatives to Element. Ditto looks nice, but is very barebones.
- spurgu 6y ago
  > It's not trying to be a Signal-style messenger, it's trying to be something like Slack - and at that I'd say it succeeds. I'm of the completely opposite opinion I find Element absolutely atrocious compared to Slack in terms of usability The mobile app is decent though. And I don't know at what pace Element is being improved, only been using it for a couple of weeks. That said Slack has been going downhill UI/UX-wise for years now.
3np 6y ago
Even the server-side software is not feature complete yet. Give it time. Another client that I think is aiming to fill that gap (and also has a provider with bridges to eg Messenger et al) is Novachat: https://nova.chat/ https://nova.chat/ Matrix is not an IM app, it’s a protocol. Anyone is encouraged to make an app for it. It’s a long game. I’d give it another year or two before I think it’s grandma-ready.
- _-___________-_ 6y ago
  Indeed it's a protocol. A horrendous, reinvent-everything, excessively complex mess of a protocol, that the developers of the reference server have gone on record saying that they don't expect anyone else to be able to successfully implement.
  - 29083011397778 6y ago
    > the developers of the reference server have gone on record saying that they don't expect anyone else to be able to successfully implement. Despite this, there are multiple alternative server implementations. Dendrite is the next gen server from the same core team, though Construct and Conduit are fledgling servers from different groups.
    - _-___________-_ 6y ago
      Neither Construct nor Conduit are complete implementations, and may never be. The protocol developers were actively discouraging them at one point too.
      - 3np 6y ago
        Got a source for the latter statement? It’s contrary to everything I’ve seen and heard.

ryukafalz 6y ago

I mean, keep in mind that while Element is effectively the reference client, it's also still just one client. It's not trying to be a Signal-style messenger, it's trying to be something like Slack - and at that I'd say it succeeds. There are other clients in development that are closer UI-wise to your typical mobile messenger, e.g. https://dittochat.org/ https://dittochat.org/

_-___________-_ 6y ago
Having spent a decent amount of time reading and attempting to implement small parts of the horrendous mess that is the Matrix protocol, I'd bet decent money that there will never be any reasonably complete alternatives to Element. Ditto looks nice, but is very barebones.
spurgu 6y ago
> It's not trying to be a Signal-style messenger, it's trying to be something like Slack - and at that I'd say it succeeds. I'm of the completely opposite opinion I find Element absolutely atrocious compared to Slack in terms of usability The mobile app is decent though. And I don't know at what pace Element is being improved, only been using it for a couple of weeks. That said Slack has been going downhill UI/UX-wise for years now.

3np 6y ago

Even the server-side software is not feature complete yet. Give it time. Another client that I think is aiming to fill that gap (and also has a provider with bridges to eg Messenger et al) is Novachat: https://nova.chat/ https://nova.chat/ Matrix is not an IM app, it’s a protocol. Anyone is encouraged to make an app for it. It’s a long game. I’d give it another year or two before I think it’s grandma-ready.

_-___________-_ 6y ago
Indeed it's a protocol. A horrendous, reinvent-everything, excessively complex mess of a protocol, that the developers of the reference server have gone on record saying that they don't expect anyone else to be able to successfully implement.
- 29083011397778 6y ago
  > the developers of the reference server have gone on record saying that they don't expect anyone else to be able to successfully implement. Despite this, there are multiple alternative server implementations. Dendrite is the next gen server from the same core team, though Construct and Conduit are fledgling servers from different groups.
  - _-___________-_ 6y ago
    Neither Construct nor Conduit are complete implementations, and may never be. The protocol developers were actively discouraging them at one point too.
    - 3np 6y ago
      Got a source for the latter statement? It’s contrary to everything I’ve seen and heard.