7 ms·

Apple's CUPS Repository Has Died. CUPS creator M. Sweet has moved on to a fork

166 points by wailin 6y ago

pseudosavant 6y ago
I don't own any Macs, but I have setup far more printers on other people's Macs than on my own PCs. No Windows user ever asks me for 'tech support' to get a printer working. But the few Mac users need it all the time. It is so odd to me that setting up a printer on Mac is so much harder for the average user, apparently. My current printer worked by just plugging it into the computer. Windows downloaded the drivers and it all just worked. If your printer is well supported out of the box in CUPS you might do ok, but that does not seem to be that common if your printer is new-ish.
- protomyth 6y ago
  No Windows user ever asks me for 'tech support' to get a printer working I wish. We do have some problems on Windows, but the Mac is so, so much worse. I get the feeling its one of those things that Apple just doesn't value. I do wonder why there hasn't been a universal printer protocol? You would think that we could get to some set of properties that could describe any printer.
  - gsich 6y ago
    I mean there is Postscript. But the problem with standards, there are many to chose from.
    - protomyth 6y ago
      Postscript doesn't do the printer configuration. I remember Printer Job Language, but I don't think that allowed control of printer features.
      - gsich 6y ago
        PPD does.
  - ianlevesque 6y ago
    AirPrint is such a protocol and well-supported. They've just moved on to network printing instead of continuing to work on USB printers.
    - anoncareer0212 6y ago
      10 years ago - it hasn't worked in practice unless you remember all your capitalized Apple buzzwords and are willing to pay extra for it (I say this in disappointment, I was able to be a full time dev _because_ of iOS 4.2 and AirPrint)
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  What kind of problems have they had (on Macs)? I've never had an issue in 14 years of OS X (now macOS) as my daily driver with printers. Except for one HP printer because HP made everything too complicated (I was able to find a way to connect directly to it rather than through their software, I just had to corrupt my phone with their app to get the printer on the network the first time).
- djrogers 6y ago
  > My current printer worked by just plugging it into the computer I couldn't figure out where the disconnect between your experience and mine was, as I never have to help Mac family and friends, but the windows users wind up throwing their printers out the window. The disconnect must be that - you're plugging them in! I haven't used a USB printer in over a decade, and back when Idid the printer makers were almost hostile to Mac users, so their drivers sucked, installed crapware, and frequently hogged resources so they could throw up a splash screen to sell you new ink/toner. For probably close to 15 years, and especially in the decade since the advent of AirPrint, I stopped doing all of that. Printer gets on the network, macs all see it as an AirPrint device, and it works.
  - tracker1 6y ago
    I find Ethernet, when available tends to work out best... I've yet to see a wifi printer that works well/consistently. Though lots of higher end routers can act as a USB print server as well.
    - a2tech 6y ago
      WiFi printers work great--assuming you assign them a static IP address and you set it up by telling Windows/OS X to use that IP address as the port address instead of any goofy auto detect nonsense pushed on you by the manufacturer.
      - tracker1 6y ago
        I usually just put printers in the reserved list on my router to keep getting the same IP. Haven't really done wireless on a newer than 5yo device, but have had a couple issues back then just in maintaining a connection. My wired printers have had no issues though, even from wifi devices.
    - Nursie 6y ago
      Honestly in recent years I haven't even had to do that. Got a small-office style HP printer/scanner, it's on wifi, everything just seems to be able to talk to it. Couldn't be happier...
- mlindner 6y ago
  It's the reverse for me. Setting up a printer on Windows is impossibly difficult. On Mac you just plug it in and it works.
  - socialdemocrat 6y ago
    Same with me. Strange how people can have such radically different experience.
    - markmark 6y ago
      I've got Macs, ipads, Windows and Android at home and they all work without issue or additional setup with the Brother Wifi printer I have. None is better than any of the others, it's seamless with all of them. (Actually, thinking about it, I'm not sure I've ever printed from the ipads, since they're my kids' and I don't use them much, but the other three work fine).
- em500 6y ago
  After a decade without a printer at home, I bought one this year for WFH, a HP Tango X. "Installing" meant getting it on wifi via WPS, after which it was immediately visible and usable on Mac, iPhone, Android. On Windows it was visible under printers, but it started to download some extra HP software before it would allow printing for the first time. I don't see the point of plugging a printer into anything. How would I plug it into my phone?
  - saghm 6y ago
    > How would I plug it into my phone? Not to discount your experience at all, but my immediate reaction to this was to think "Why would I ever want to print from my phone?" I think the answer to both of our questions is that other people have very different workflows, so something that might be a show-stopper or a killer feature for one person could be an afterthought for another.
    - em500 6y ago
      > "Why would I ever want to print from my phone?" Because the thing I want to print is already on my phone? I don't move stuff that's on my laptop that I want to print to my phone first, nor the other way around. Both seem somewhat pointless.
  - tinus_hn 6y ago
    Routers still support WPS?
- FridgeSeal 6y ago
  I have the opposite experience. At my previous work (new job has no office, nor printers) windows ran the full gamut of "things that can go wrong with printers": couldn't detect them, could detect them couldn't print, could print before - now can't. There wasn't a week that went by when the person who was blessed by the printer gods didn't randomly change. In comparison, zero issues on my Mac laptop.
- tracker1 6y ago
  I've been a fan of HP Laser printers connected via Ethernet. Every device I've tried connects and loads the drivers without issue (including a macbook). Aside, I really wish Google hadn't removed the Print options from Android/Chrome. Being able to buy tickets and send them to my printer from my phone was awesome... having to save/share links and go to my desktop to print something, less so. I know I can often show a code on my phone, but there are times and places where wifi and mobile connections aren't reliable. Not really in favor of HP over other mfg's, only that I've had far fewer issues with them than any other mfg for laser printers at least. Been using a color laser (m451nw) for about 5 years now. I don't really print that often, a couple pages a month, and always had issues with ink printers gumming up when I'd go a couple months without printing anything.
  - saghm 6y ago
    > Aside, I really wish Google hadn't removed the Print options from Android/Chrome. Being able to buy tickets and send them to my printer from my phone was awesome... having to save/share links and go to my desktop to print something, less so. I know I can often show a code on my phone, but there are times and places where wifi and mobile connections aren't reliable. I generally just print to a PDF on my phone (or download them directly that way, if that's an option). That way, I can get them scanned even if I don't have internet. That said, I did use to worry about my phone running out of battery or something, but at this point I haven't had my phone run out of battery while I'm out for several years now, so it isn't much of a factor for me.
  - dgacmu 6y ago
    It's not gone, it's become annoying: go to the three dots menu and select "share...". Then look for a thing that says "Chrome" with "print" under it.
    - ISL 6y ago
      Perhaps GP was referring to Google Cloud Print, which is being sunset at the end of 2020?
    - tracker1 6y ago
- socialdemocrat 6y ago
  You and me must live in alternate universes, as my experience is the opposite. I have used Macs for 22 years or so and cannot really remember ever having much problems with printers. Usually drivers are already installed and it is plug and play. With Windows you often had to fiddle with installing drivers. Don’t know the current situation as I use Windows as little as possible. Every time I have to use Windows I think my blood pressure goes up a few nothces.
  - m-p-3 6y ago
    With Windows the drivers are mostly downloaded on-the-go through Windows Update.
- sigmaml 6y ago
  I have been using Mac for 14 years. There was exactly one HP printer that worked with Mac straight off the box. For every other printer, whether at office or home, I had to perform some additional manual steps to print using my Mac. So, looking at the various comments, experiences do seem to vary widely. Just to contrast, I never had a problem with WiFi on my Macs, while one of my colleagues had incessant problems with one of theirs!
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  I spend my time working with printers and I don't see much distinction between macOS and Windows anymore. Where the big difference comes is different printer manufacturers. The worst of them produce bug ridden, bloated and privacy invading software.
gogopuppygogo 6y ago
I bought a usb laser printer for a few hundred dollars about a decade ago. It gets detected and installed on Mac and Windows without issue. It still prints without issue. I am on the original toner (to help you understand how exceedingly rare it is for me to need to print). Inkjet Printers are such a pain to make work in general, have such high costs for ink, and rarely hold up well. I would rather buy a color laser if I needed to print color and I’d probably go find a used one that was loved before dealing with the new ones. Reminds me of 20 years ago when people kept the early HP LaserJet models going for their needs because they were such workhorses.
- mongol 6y ago
  A Brother printer by any chance? My Brother printer is just like the one you descibed but it is not exceedingly rare that I print. It is just infrequent.
  - chx 6y ago
    Is there a phone version of ThinkPads and Brother printers?
    - fuzxi 6y ago
      Nokia bricks, haha.
  - kstrauser 6y ago
    Same for me. I had an HP 1200n that was a workhorse forever and ever, but was completely phone-unfriendly. AirPrint? Not in this life, bucko! I replaced it with a Brother HL-3120CDW and that things a freaking tank.
    - ce4 6y ago
      Or add a "Raspberry Pi + CUPS"-dongle to the HP-1200n and it starts working on phone
dsukhin 6y ago
Off topic: the consent dialog on this page was hilarious and simultaneously a great social commentary on the typical dark patterns. > In order to offer an "ad-filled experience" and maximize our profits, LinuxReviews would very much like you to allow our Google AdSense ad-partner to use tracking and cookies so we can show ads from them on our website. > Options: Resist, Approve (2x bigger) As a web developer, this was refreshing, but as a user didn't immediately make me want to accept. I wonder what their opt in rate is like compared to the "best" practice
- tracker1 6y ago
  Between uBlock origin and Privacy Badger, I didn't even see the request.
  - wruza 6y ago
    That's what they suggest using in "more information" article, which is hilarious. Your information is, quite frankly, not very important to us. ... The only reason to store any information on random users would be to sell that information to third parties. We are not willing to do that. Thus; your user data is worth zero and that is why we don't collect your worthless information. When other sites write "Your information is very important to us" they actually mean that "We are collecting and selling your personal data and that revenue stream is very important to us". First, understand that we, and other websites on the Internet, can not set cookies or store data in your browser. Web-servers can ask web browsers to store cookies. It is up to you to configure your web browser running on your computer to behave according to your desires. Politicians and law-makers who think "cookie warnings" and similar web pollution make sense are blundering morons who simply fail to understand how the Internet works. You can configure your web browser so you do not get any third party tracking when you use this website using any of these alterantives: ...
    - Nursie 6y ago
      I enjoy the first paragraph, but the second... You can do that, of course many of us do. But can the average user? Does the average user even know this sort of tracking goes on? And that just blocking cookies is a small part of the battle? The cookie law was a crude measure, but with both that law and the GDPR something crucial always gets missed - You don't need the banners if you're not doing this stuff.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
GeekyBear 6y ago
As far as I can see, everyone has switched over to driverless printing via the Internet Printing Protocol. Apple calls it AirPrint. Microsoft calls it Universal Print. Google killed CloudPrint and has adopted IPP as well. What's left of CUPS seems to be the ability to allow a machine attached to a legacy printer to function as IPP print server. Newer printers support IPP out of the box.
- wbl 6y ago
  But then you have to type your wifi info into a tiny little screen with buttons and deal with memory unqble to handle giant PDFs.
  - majewsky 6y ago
    > you have to type your wifi info into a tiny little screen with buttons WPS has been a thing for the last 10 years.
    - LordDragonfang 6y ago
      I feel like I've seen a half dozen articles on this site alone on why WPS is horrible and insecure.
  - m-p-3 6y ago
    My printer doesn't even have that, you gotta do it through the WebUI with an Ethernet cable or over USB.
- brudgers 6y ago
  Dedicated drivers provide finer control than driverless. ICC profiles calibrated for a third party paper for example.
  - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
    It's the same old story, dumbed down systems to accommodate the masses. As soon as you want to do something out of the ordinary you will be out of luck.

166 points by wailin 6y ago

I don't own any Macs, but I have setup far more printers on other people's Macs than on my own PCs. No Windows user ever asks me for 'tech support' to get a printer working. But the few Mac users need it all the time. It is so odd to me that setting up a printer on Mac is so much harder for the average user, apparently. My current printer worked by just plugging it into the computer. Windows downloaded the drivers and it all just worked. If your printer is well supported out of the box in CUPS you might do ok, but that does not seem to be that common if your printer is new-ish.

protomyth 6y ago
No Windows user ever asks me for 'tech support' to get a printer working I wish. We do have some problems on Windows, but the Mac is so, so much worse. I get the feeling its one of those things that Apple just doesn't value. I do wonder why there hasn't been a universal printer protocol? You would think that we could get to some set of properties that could describe any printer.
- gsich 6y ago
  I mean there is Postscript. But the problem with standards, there are many to chose from.
  - protomyth 6y ago
    Postscript doesn't do the printer configuration. I remember Printer Job Language, but I don't think that allowed control of printer features.
    - gsich 6y ago
      PPD does.
- ianlevesque 6y ago
  AirPrint is such a protocol and well-supported. They've just moved on to network printing instead of continuing to work on USB printers.
  - anoncareer0212 6y ago
    10 years ago - it hasn't worked in practice unless you remember all your capitalized Apple buzzwords and are willing to pay extra for it (I say this in disappointment, I was able to be a full time dev _because_ of iOS 4.2 and AirPrint)
Jtsummers 6y ago
What kind of problems have they had (on Macs)? I've never had an issue in 14 years of OS X (now macOS) as my daily driver with printers. Except for one HP printer because HP made everything too complicated (I was able to find a way to connect directly to it rather than through their software, I just had to corrupt my phone with their app to get the printer on the network the first time).
djrogers 6y ago
> My current printer worked by just plugging it into the computer I couldn't figure out where the disconnect between your experience and mine was, as I never have to help Mac family and friends, but the windows users wind up throwing their printers out the window. The disconnect must be that - you're plugging them in! I haven't used a USB printer in over a decade, and back when Idid the printer makers were almost hostile to Mac users, so their drivers sucked, installed crapware, and frequently hogged resources so they could throw up a splash screen to sell you new ink/toner. For probably close to 15 years, and especially in the decade since the advent of AirPrint, I stopped doing all of that. Printer gets on the network, macs all see it as an AirPrint device, and it works.
- tracker1 6y ago
  I find Ethernet, when available tends to work out best... I've yet to see a wifi printer that works well/consistently. Though lots of higher end routers can act as a USB print server as well.
  - a2tech 6y ago
    WiFi printers work great--assuming you assign them a static IP address and you set it up by telling Windows/OS X to use that IP address as the port address instead of any goofy auto detect nonsense pushed on you by the manufacturer.
    - tracker1 6y ago
      I usually just put printers in the reserved list on my router to keep getting the same IP. Haven't really done wireless on a newer than 5yo device, but have had a couple issues back then just in maintaining a connection. My wired printers have had no issues though, even from wifi devices.
  - Nursie 6y ago
    Honestly in recent years I haven't even had to do that. Got a small-office style HP printer/scanner, it's on wifi, everything just seems to be able to talk to it. Couldn't be happier...
mlindner 6y ago
It's the reverse for me. Setting up a printer on Windows is impossibly difficult. On Mac you just plug it in and it works.
- socialdemocrat 6y ago
  Same with me. Strange how people can have such radically different experience.
  - markmark 6y ago
    I've got Macs, ipads, Windows and Android at home and they all work without issue or additional setup with the Brother Wifi printer I have. None is better than any of the others, it's seamless with all of them. (Actually, thinking about it, I'm not sure I've ever printed from the ipads, since they're my kids' and I don't use them much, but the other three work fine).
em500 6y ago
After a decade without a printer at home, I bought one this year for WFH, a HP Tango X. "Installing" meant getting it on wifi via WPS, after which it was immediately visible and usable on Mac, iPhone, Android. On Windows it was visible under printers, but it started to download some extra HP software before it would allow printing for the first time. I don't see the point of plugging a printer into anything. How would I plug it into my phone?
- saghm 6y ago
  > How would I plug it into my phone? Not to discount your experience at all, but my immediate reaction to this was to think "Why would I ever want to print from my phone?" I think the answer to both of our questions is that other people have very different workflows, so something that might be a show-stopper or a killer feature for one person could be an afterthought for another.
  - em500 6y ago
    > "Why would I ever want to print from my phone?" Because the thing I want to print is already on my phone? I don't move stuff that's on my laptop that I want to print to my phone first, nor the other way around. Both seem somewhat pointless.
- tinus_hn 6y ago
  Routers still support WPS?
FridgeSeal 6y ago
I have the opposite experience. At my previous work (new job has no office, nor printers) windows ran the full gamut of "things that can go wrong with printers": couldn't detect them, could detect them couldn't print, could print before - now can't. There wasn't a week that went by when the person who was blessed by the printer gods didn't randomly change. In comparison, zero issues on my Mac laptop.
tracker1 6y ago
I've been a fan of HP Laser printers connected via Ethernet. Every device I've tried connects and loads the drivers without issue (including a macbook). Aside, I really wish Google hadn't removed the Print options from Android/Chrome. Being able to buy tickets and send them to my printer from my phone was awesome... having to save/share links and go to my desktop to print something, less so. I know I can often show a code on my phone, but there are times and places where wifi and mobile connections aren't reliable. Not really in favor of HP over other mfg's, only that I've had far fewer issues with them than any other mfg for laser printers at least. Been using a color laser (m451nw) for about 5 years now. I don't really print that often, a couple pages a month, and always had issues with ink printers gumming up when I'd go a couple months without printing anything.
- saghm 6y ago
  > Aside, I really wish Google hadn't removed the Print options from Android/Chrome. Being able to buy tickets and send them to my printer from my phone was awesome... having to save/share links and go to my desktop to print something, less so. I know I can often show a code on my phone, but there are times and places where wifi and mobile connections aren't reliable. I generally just print to a PDF on my phone (or download them directly that way, if that's an option). That way, I can get them scanned even if I don't have internet. That said, I did use to worry about my phone running out of battery or something, but at this point I haven't had my phone run out of battery while I'm out for several years now, so it isn't much of a factor for me.
- dgacmu 6y ago
  It's not gone, it's become annoying: go to the three dots menu and select "share...". Then look for a thing that says "Chrome" with "print" under it.
  - ISL 6y ago
    Perhaps GP was referring to Google Cloud Print, which is being sunset at the end of 2020?
  - tracker1 6y ago
socialdemocrat 6y ago
You and me must live in alternate universes, as my experience is the opposite. I have used Macs for 22 years or so and cannot really remember ever having much problems with printers. Usually drivers are already installed and it is plug and play. With Windows you often had to fiddle with installing drivers. Don’t know the current situation as I use Windows as little as possible. Every time I have to use Windows I think my blood pressure goes up a few nothces.
- m-p-3 6y ago
  With Windows the drivers are mostly downloaded on-the-go through Windows Update.
sigmaml 6y ago
I have been using Mac for 14 years. There was exactly one HP printer that worked with Mac straight off the box. For every other printer, whether at office or home, I had to perform some additional manual steps to print using my Mac. So, looking at the various comments, experiences do seem to vary widely. Just to contrast, I never had a problem with WiFi on my Macs, while one of my colleagues had incessant problems with one of theirs!
tonyedgecombe 6y ago
I spend my time working with printers and I don't see much distinction between macOS and Windows anymore. Where the big difference comes is different printer manufacturers. The worst of them produce bug ridden, bloated and privacy invading software.

gogopuppygogo 6y ago

I bought a usb laser printer for a few hundred dollars about a decade ago. It gets detected and installed on Mac and Windows without issue. It still prints without issue. I am on the original toner (to help you understand how exceedingly rare it is for me to need to print). Inkjet Printers are such a pain to make work in general, have such high costs for ink, and rarely hold up well. I would rather buy a color laser if I needed to print color and I’d probably go find a used one that was loved before dealing with the new ones. Reminds me of 20 years ago when people kept the early HP LaserJet models going for their needs because they were such workhorses.

mongol 6y ago
A Brother printer by any chance? My Brother printer is just like the one you descibed but it is not exceedingly rare that I print. It is just infrequent.
- chx 6y ago
  Is there a phone version of ThinkPads and Brother printers?
  - fuzxi 6y ago
    Nokia bricks, haha.
- kstrauser 6y ago
  Same for me. I had an HP 1200n that was a workhorse forever and ever, but was completely phone-unfriendly. AirPrint? Not in this life, bucko! I replaced it with a Brother HL-3120CDW and that things a freaking tank.
  - ce4 6y ago
    Or add a "Raspberry Pi + CUPS"-dongle to the HP-1200n and it starts working on phone

dsukhin 6y ago

Off topic: the consent dialog on this page was hilarious and simultaneously a great social commentary on the typical dark patterns. > In order to offer an "ad-filled experience" and maximize our profits, LinuxReviews would very much like you to allow our Google AdSense ad-partner to use tracking and cookies so we can show ads from them on our website. > Options: Resist, Approve (2x bigger) As a web developer, this was refreshing, but as a user didn't immediately make me want to accept. I wonder what their opt in rate is like compared to the "best" practice

tracker1 6y ago
Between uBlock origin and Privacy Badger, I didn't even see the request.
- wruza 6y ago
  That's what they suggest using in "more information" article, which is hilarious. Your information is, quite frankly, not very important to us. ... The only reason to store any information on random users would be to sell that information to third parties. We are not willing to do that. Thus; your user data is worth zero and that is why we don't collect your worthless information. When other sites write "Your information is very important to us" they actually mean that "We are collecting and selling your personal data and that revenue stream is very important to us". First, understand that we, and other websites on the Internet, can not set cookies or store data in your browser. Web-servers can ask web browsers to store cookies. It is up to you to configure your web browser running on your computer to behave according to your desires. Politicians and law-makers who think "cookie warnings" and similar web pollution make sense are blundering morons who simply fail to understand how the Internet works. You can configure your web browser so you do not get any third party tracking when you use this website using any of these alterantives: ...
  - Nursie 6y ago
    I enjoy the first paragraph, but the second... You can do that, of course many of us do. But can the average user? Does the average user even know this sort of tracking goes on? And that just blocking cookies is a small part of the battle? The cookie law was a crude measure, but with both that law and the GDPR something crucial always gets missed - You don't need the banners if you're not doing this stuff.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

GeekyBear 6y ago

As far as I can see, everyone has switched over to driverless printing via the Internet Printing Protocol. Apple calls it AirPrint. Microsoft calls it Universal Print. Google killed CloudPrint and has adopted IPP as well. What's left of CUPS seems to be the ability to allow a machine attached to a legacy printer to function as IPP print server. Newer printers support IPP out of the box.

wbl 6y ago
But then you have to type your wifi info into a tiny little screen with buttons and deal with memory unqble to handle giant PDFs.
- majewsky 6y ago
  > you have to type your wifi info into a tiny little screen with buttons WPS has been a thing for the last 10 years.
  - LordDragonfang 6y ago
    I feel like I've seen a half dozen articles on this site alone on why WPS is horrible and insecure.
- m-p-3 6y ago
  My printer doesn't even have that, you gotta do it through the WebUI with an Ethernet cable or over USB.
brudgers 6y ago
Dedicated drivers provide finer control than driverless. ICC profiles calibrated for a third party paper for example.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  It's the same old story, dumbed down systems to accommodate the masses. As soon as you want to do something out of the ordinary you will be out of luck.