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I would never use this for anything sensitive. Bad actors can get your face and your fingerprint. Some of them already have it (governments, banks, Apple, Face

I would never use this for anything sensitive. Bad actors can get your face and your fingerprint. Some of them already have it (governments, banks, Apple, Facebook, etc). And changing your face or fingerprint is practically impossible.

reaperducer 6y ago
Apple has my face and fingerprint? I haven't heard this before and Google turns up nothing. Any source?
- macintux 6y ago
  Your Apple device has a hash of your fingerprint and/or face at best. Apple itself has nothing of the sort.
- young_unixer 6y ago
  You put your fingerprint into a black box and that black box phones home to Apple servers. From a security standpoint, we must assume that they have your fingerprint unless there's a way to prove that they don't. iOS is closed source so we can't prove that. From an epistemological point of view: I don't know if they have it. From a security point of view: they have your fingerprint.
  - mcpherrinm 6y ago
    Just because something's closed source doesn't mean we can't learn about it. The field of reverse engineering has been around for a long time, and the iPhone and Mac are two of the most studied devices around. Ultimately you do have to trust your platform if you're going to use a platform authenticator to some degree. But the alternative in the FIDO2/webauthn space is something like a Yubikey which has no biometrics; it just takes a simple tap. And can be easily removed from your computer. So in that comparison, the fingerprint is purely additive security. Even if it's adding nothing to a serious adversary, it's still dramatically reducing risk to a less-skilled local attacker.
  - rimliu 6y ago
    My bank has my money. Shoul I feel robbed, from security point of view?
pgoggijr 6y ago
This wouldn't just require them to have your face and fingerprint though - This would require them to 1. Have access to your phone 2. Be able to spoof the phone's authentication mechanisms (whether that be fingerprint / face) In this regard, it passes the 2FA test (something that you own, and something that you are). While it's true that you can't really change your face or fingerprint, this facilitates moving away from the "password repeated across multiple accounts" landscape of insecurity.
olliej 6y ago
what? Apple does not have your face or fingerprints. FaceID and TouchID both record any data they need in parts of the enclave that can't be used for anything else, and cannot be extracted. The information that they do store is not a picture, and cannot be reversed even in the case where someone does manage to get that data. They have repeatedly documented how these features work. Similarly touchid and faceid aren't sending your touchid/faceid data to a third party (because again, even if they wanted to, they can't), they're simply gating access to credential data on successful local authentication.
LeoPanthera 6y ago
Getting your face (and it has to be a high resolution 3D model of your face, not just a photograph) or your fingerprint is not enough. They also have to have physical access to one of your devices.

reaperducer 6y ago

Apple has my face and fingerprint? I haven't heard this before and Google turns up nothing. Any source?

macintux 6y ago
Your Apple device has a hash of your fingerprint and/or face at best. Apple itself has nothing of the sort.
young_unixer 6y ago
You put your fingerprint into a black box and that black box phones home to Apple servers. From a security standpoint, we must assume that they have your fingerprint unless there's a way to prove that they don't. iOS is closed source so we can't prove that. From an epistemological point of view: I don't know if they have it. From a security point of view: they have your fingerprint.
- mcpherrinm 6y ago
  Just because something's closed source doesn't mean we can't learn about it. The field of reverse engineering has been around for a long time, and the iPhone and Mac are two of the most studied devices around. Ultimately you do have to trust your platform if you're going to use a platform authenticator to some degree. But the alternative in the FIDO2/webauthn space is something like a Yubikey which has no biometrics; it just takes a simple tap. And can be easily removed from your computer. So in that comparison, the fingerprint is purely additive security. Even if it's adding nothing to a serious adversary, it's still dramatically reducing risk to a less-skilled local attacker.
- rimliu 6y ago
  My bank has my money. Shoul I feel robbed, from security point of view?

pgoggijr 6y ago

This wouldn't just require them to have your face and fingerprint though - This would require them to 1. Have access to your phone 2. Be able to spoof the phone's authentication mechanisms (whether that be fingerprint / face) In this regard, it passes the 2FA test (something that you own, and something that you are). While it's true that you can't really change your face or fingerprint, this facilitates moving away from the "password repeated across multiple accounts" landscape of insecurity.

olliej 6y ago

what? Apple does not have your face or fingerprints. FaceID and TouchID both record any data they need in parts of the enclave that can't be used for anything else, and cannot be extracted. The information that they do store is not a picture, and cannot be reversed even in the case where someone does manage to get that data. They have repeatedly documented how these features work. Similarly touchid and faceid aren't sending your touchid/faceid data to a third party (because again, even if they wanted to, they can't), they're simply gating access to credential data on successful local authentication.

LeoPanthera 6y ago

Getting your face (and it has to be a high resolution 3D model of your face, not just a photograph) or your fingerprint is not enough. They also have to have physical access to one of your devices.