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Indeed they are, as is much of the Western canon. They are the products of a period and locale in which white supremacy was more or less unquestioned by a large

Indeed they are, as is much of the Western canon. They are the products of a period and locale in which white supremacy was more or less unquestioned by a large proportion of the English-speaking population. "The Elements of Style" is still useful and interesting, but its limitations and origins must be acknowledged. Among them is that it is a collection of usage patterns chiefly used by and intended for a specific class of English speakers. That class was not inclusive or representative of all the ways English is written or spoken, nor necessarily even of the "best." The book should be one source among many for those who hope to communicate clearly and concisely.

davidivadavid 6y ago
The vast majority of the Western canon isn't even written in English.
- devindotcom 6y ago
  You're quite right, I should have written something along the lines of "conventionally important works in English" or the like. Of course the western canon is much more diverse.
Veen 6y ago
> They are the products of a period and locale in which white supremacy was more or less unquestioned by a large proportion of the English-speaking population. By that standard, James Baldwin's writing is a relic of white supremacy and homophobia because he wrote when both were more or less unquestioned. Or, by a more sensible standard, you have carelessly besmirched a writer's reputation by associating him with white supremacy via a vague claim about historical attitudes and no reference to his beliefs or the content of his work. As a strategy, I suppose it has the benefit of not requiring much thought or evidence.
- devindotcom 6y ago
  James Baldwin's writing certainly is "the product of a period and locale in which white supremacy was more or less unquestioned by a large proportion of the English-speaking population." Do you think it is otherwise? I am not dismissing the work, I am looking at its context. White supremacy is more than klan rallies in Alabama. It was a major part of thinking and writing in the US and English-speaking world in general for a long time, a mindset and set of assumptions and lessons that changed how everyone did pretty much everything. It's hard to imagine any major piece media emerging from the 19th-20th centuries that does not bear the mark of white supremacy in one form or another.
  - dbtc 6y ago
    Influenced by, not a product of.
  - foldr 6y ago
    >It's hard to imagine any major piece media emerging from the 19th-20th centuries that does not bear the mark of white supremacy in one form or another. This is true, but it also entails that it's easy to selectively weaponize opposition to white supremacy against virtually any target. Is there something you don't like? Chances are that it has a real historical connection to white supremacy, at one or two degrees of removal.

davidivadavid 6y ago

The vast majority of the Western canon isn't even written in English.

devindotcom 6y ago
You're quite right, I should have written something along the lines of "conventionally important works in English" or the like. Of course the western canon is much more diverse.

Veen 6y ago

> They are the products of a period and locale in which white supremacy was more or less unquestioned by a large proportion of the English-speaking population. By that standard, James Baldwin's writing is a relic of white supremacy and homophobia because he wrote when both were more or less unquestioned. Or, by a more sensible standard, you have carelessly besmirched a writer's reputation by associating him with white supremacy via a vague claim about historical attitudes and no reference to his beliefs or the content of his work. As a strategy, I suppose it has the benefit of not requiring much thought or evidence.

devindotcom 6y ago
James Baldwin's writing certainly is "the product of a period and locale in which white supremacy was more or less unquestioned by a large proportion of the English-speaking population." Do you think it is otherwise? I am not dismissing the work, I am looking at its context. White supremacy is more than klan rallies in Alabama. It was a major part of thinking and writing in the US and English-speaking world in general for a long time, a mindset and set of assumptions and lessons that changed how everyone did pretty much everything. It's hard to imagine any major piece media emerging from the 19th-20th centuries that does not bear the mark of white supremacy in one form or another.
- dbtc 6y ago
  Influenced by, not a product of.
- foldr 6y ago
  >It's hard to imagine any major piece media emerging from the 19th-20th centuries that does not bear the mark of white supremacy in one form or another. This is true, but it also entails that it's easy to selectively weaponize opposition to white supremacy against virtually any target. Is there something you don't like? Chances are that it has a real historical connection to white supremacy, at one or two degrees of removal.