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Apple did not terminate Epic's SiwA account, and several journalists have sources within Apple that say that Apple never sent the message Epic claimed to receiv

by dwaite 6y ago

Apple did not terminate Epic's SiwA account, and several journalists have sources within Apple that say that Apple never sent the message Epic claimed to receive that said access was going away.

virtue3 6y ago
https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/123774 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/123774 Not the only ones that randomly gets their accounts terminated. Based on how apple has -insane- fragmentation and security for different aspects of the company, I would doubt any employee that isn't directly tied into the store accounts would know the whole details. (Source: GF worked for the department that did art/design for the apple stores, no one had access to their room, and they had more secure rooms that only a few employees had access to). FWIW google has the same issues. Don't trust a company with an account that you can't get a human on the phone for to review shit.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  I use Sign In with Apple everywhere I can (so many of my passwords are in haveibeenpwned datasets), and if Apple blacklisted a provider I use, I’d expect the service to email me to migrate to their own email/password identity provider (if I didn’t hide my email from them with SIWA), with a link to the migration process in the email.
  - dkonofalski 6y ago
    Same except that, if Apple blacklisted a provider, I'd want to know why they got blacklisted. At this point, I trust Apple as a neutral third party more than I trust most other companies since Apple isn't incentivized to sell my info.
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      Agreed, with the caveat that we need some regulation through legislation to codify safeguards around identity providers, their responsibilities, etc.
- mvanbaak 6y ago
  > Not the only ones that randomly Not really random now right...
- dwaite 6y ago
  That does not necessarily have anything to do with SiwA, however.
saagarjha 6y ago
Tim Sweeney produced a letter saying that Apple would terminate their access: https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1311345253576830978 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/131134525357683097...
- jsjohnst 6y ago
  That’s a pretty misleading interpretation of what Apple said or even what Tim Sweeney said in the tweet...
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    How so?
    - jsjohnst 6y ago
      > Apple is entirely in its rights to terminate Epic Games’ developer account and all related functionality, but SIWA will continue to function for two weeks. Ok, let’s translate it: 1) Apple believes it’s entirely in its rights to terminate Epic’s dev account and is doing so 2) Apple also believes it’s in their right to kill all related account functionally, but they aren’t, specifically with SIWA, for at least two weeks. 3) they don’t specify what will happen after two weeks, as that likely depends on several factors. We later learn that they extended it indefinitely. So there’s multiple possible scenarios: A) Apple really is just threatening as you indicated, but not being blatantly direct about it. Possible, but not the only possibility, and not usually their style from what I’ve seen for something like this, but who knows. I feel if Apple really wanted to threaten, they’d make the threat explicit and say “after two weeks of non-compliance, we will terminate everything”. B) Apple is stalling making a decision over if SIWA will continue to be available to Epic’s users to ensure the SIWA team can support it when the dev account is deactivated. From other rumors where we hear folks saying SIWA team did have to make changes, I’m thinking this was the likely scenario. Don’t make a commitment to keep something going if you can’t deliver on it for sure yet, so “give them a two week extension” so you learn if you can actually keep SIWA up. If they can’t and Epic is still fighting with Fire, maybe you do terminate SIWA, but maybe not. Either way, Apple wins. C) Apple is stalling a decision to scare Epic into compliance after Epic’s users backlash over word it might end. Possible, but I think Epic had well shown they were ready to play the Russian roulette game with Apple down to the last chamber, so I’m thinking less likely than A/B. So if I was a betting man, I’d say it’s a mixed bag at best, but would likely go: B > A > C Apple doesn’t play checkers, they play chess. When they send a letter like that, they ensure there’s multiple positive outcomes for them for any potential scenario, from technical complications, to user perception, to legal proceedings, etc.

by dwaite 6y ago

Apple did not terminate Epic's SiwA account, and several journalists have sources within Apple that say that Apple never sent the message Epic claimed to receive that said access was going away.

virtue3 6y ago

https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/123774 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/123774 Not the only ones that randomly gets their accounts terminated. Based on how apple has -insane- fragmentation and security for different aspects of the company, I would doubt any employee that isn't directly tied into the store accounts would know the whole details. (Source: GF worked for the department that did art/design for the apple stores, no one had access to their room, and they had more secure rooms that only a few employees had access to). FWIW google has the same issues. Don't trust a company with an account that you can't get a human on the phone for to review shit.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
I use Sign In with Apple everywhere I can (so many of my passwords are in haveibeenpwned datasets), and if Apple blacklisted a provider I use, I’d expect the service to email me to migrate to their own email/password identity provider (if I didn’t hide my email from them with SIWA), with a link to the migration process in the email.
- dkonofalski 6y ago
  Same except that, if Apple blacklisted a provider, I'd want to know why they got blacklisted. At this point, I trust Apple as a neutral third party more than I trust most other companies since Apple isn't incentivized to sell my info.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    Agreed, with the caveat that we need some regulation through legislation to codify safeguards around identity providers, their responsibilities, etc.
mvanbaak 6y ago
> Not the only ones that randomly Not really random now right...
dwaite 6y ago
That does not necessarily have anything to do with SiwA, however.

saagarjha 6y ago

Tim Sweeney produced a letter saying that Apple would terminate their access: https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1311345253576830978 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/131134525357683097...

jsjohnst 6y ago
That’s a pretty misleading interpretation of what Apple said or even what Tim Sweeney said in the tweet...
- saagarjha 6y ago
  How so?
  - jsjohnst 6y ago
    > Apple is entirely in its rights to terminate Epic Games’ developer account and all related functionality, but SIWA will continue to function for two weeks. Ok, let’s translate it: 1) Apple believes it’s entirely in its rights to terminate Epic’s dev account and is doing so 2) Apple also believes it’s in their right to kill all related account functionally, but they aren’t, specifically with SIWA, for at least two weeks. 3) they don’t specify what will happen after two weeks, as that likely depends on several factors. We later learn that they extended it indefinitely. So there’s multiple possible scenarios: A) Apple really is just threatening as you indicated, but not being blatantly direct about it. Possible, but not the only possibility, and not usually their style from what I’ve seen for something like this, but who knows. I feel if Apple really wanted to threaten, they’d make the threat explicit and say “after two weeks of non-compliance, we will terminate everything”. B) Apple is stalling making a decision over if SIWA will continue to be available to Epic’s users to ensure the SIWA team can support it when the dev account is deactivated. From other rumors where we hear folks saying SIWA team did have to make changes, I’m thinking this was the likely scenario. Don’t make a commitment to keep something going if you can’t deliver on it for sure yet, so “give them a two week extension” so you learn if you can actually keep SIWA up. If they can’t and Epic is still fighting with Fire, maybe you do terminate SIWA, but maybe not. Either way, Apple wins. C) Apple is stalling a decision to scare Epic into compliance after Epic’s users backlash over word it might end. Possible, but I think Epic had well shown they were ready to play the Russian roulette game with Apple down to the last chamber, so I’m thinking less likely than A/B. So if I was a betting man, I’d say it’s a mixed bag at best, but would likely go: B > A > C Apple doesn’t play checkers, they play chess. When they send a letter like that, they ensure there’s multiple positive outcomes for them for any potential scenario, from technical complications, to user perception, to legal proceedings, etc.