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> This attitude of people claiming you shouldn't seek privacy lest you 'look like a criminal' is disappointing. I expect better from HN. "Indicative of possibl

> This attitude of people claiming you shouldn't seek privacy lest you 'look like a criminal' is disappointing. I expect better from HN. "Indicative of possible criminal conduct" means more than just "looking like a criminal." That means, if you were to be arrested for something, your use of Monero might count as evidence that you were involved in criminal activity. Combined with enough other circumstantial evidence, it might even contribute to your conviction, even without a smoking gun. This would depend on the judge and jury, but it's worth noting. I don't think it's "better" for people to ignore the risks of certain behaviors and pretend those risks don't exist. You apparently care a lot about optimizing a particular dimension: privacy. Recognize that other people have different mixes of priorities. Not everyone must agree with yours. Some people who disagree with you might even comment on this very site, as offensive as that is.

wolco2 6y ago
I think he was lamenting the loss of priority of privacy within the general hn makeup. If everyone took your advice no one would protest, write a political comment against anyone in power, take any position that isn't accepted by all and be ready to drop that opinion when society shifts. You live in a free society. Use your freedom or risk losing it.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
  What is my advice that would lead to this tragic outcome? I'm rereading it and I don't see it. Do you mean my advice to be respectful of individual people who disagree with you? Privacy has never been more important to the aggregate HN commenter than it is today. Moreover, nothing I said enjoins people from making political statements or protests.
  - fomine3 6y ago
    Would you say same thing for using encrypted communication app like Telegram, PGP?
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
      Perhaps not. Private communication is more central to our national values than customized money. That's why only one of those two things is protected by the constitution. That being said, I don't think they'd really get far with such a rule, since any prosecution based on it would be easily challenged on constitutional grounds. So we will probably never find out what in fact I would say about it.
kache_ 6y ago
If you're using monero correctly, no one should know you own any.
- pas 6y ago
  How can one buy Monero anonymously? Let's say I have 100 USD and a bank card, what's the step by step process? Does this also work with 1 000 000 USD?
  - DarthGhandi 6y ago
    I'm not sure how you are going to stay anonymous buying anything with a bank card. Using cash then localmoneros or bisq would be fine.
    - Forbo 6y ago
      This answer is completely grounded in fact, so I vouched for it. Even without the bank card number itself, many places used tokenized versions of the card number for tracking purposes.
  - akimball 6y ago
    Find someone to sell you Monero. Give them $1mm and your address. Receive Monero. Alternatively, buy bitcoin through your bank. Use it to buy monero on an exchange. Alternatively, wait 6-9 months and exchange your btc with xmr using an atomic swap, on-chain.
    - _-___________-_ 6y ago
      > Find someone to sell you Monero. Give them $1mm and your address. Receive Monero. How do you ensure this person does not know who you are, whilst also ensuring they don't steal your $1m? > Alternatively, buy bitcoin through your bank. Use it to buy monero on an exchange. Difficult to do this anonymously.
      - 6y ago
woah 6y ago
If you're arrested for something, your possession of a pry bar might count as evidence you were involved in criminal activity
webmaven 6y ago
> "Indicative of possible criminal conduct" means more than just "looking like a criminal." That means, if you were to be arrested for something, your use of Monero might count as evidence that you were involved in criminal activity. Combined with enough other circumstantial evidence, it might even contribute to your conviction, even without a smoking gun. This would depend on the judge and jury, but it's worth noting. A bigger issue might be if it counts as "probable cause" to get a warrant. Seizure of records and computers would put a crimp in anyone's day, even with no conviction or even an arrest.[0] Heck, even if all it does is in practical terms is to raise the odds of an IRS audit a bit, or raise the odds of an audit becoming a criminal investigation (by being considered a "badge of fraud"[1]), that would be enough to squelch adoption. [0] Maybe Steve Jackson Games should start working on a "Cryptopunk" GURPS module and get raided[2] again: http://www.sjgames.com/SS/ http://www.sjgames.com/SS/ [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraudulent_conveyance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraudulent_conveyance [2] Holy crapoly, that was 30 years ago. Damn, I feel old.

wolco2 6y ago

I think he was lamenting the loss of priority of privacy within the general hn makeup. If everyone took your advice no one would protest, write a political comment against anyone in power, take any position that isn't accepted by all and be ready to drop that opinion when society shifts. You live in a free society. Use your freedom or risk losing it.

asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
What is my advice that would lead to this tragic outcome? I'm rereading it and I don't see it. Do you mean my advice to be respectful of individual people who disagree with you? Privacy has never been more important to the aggregate HN commenter than it is today. Moreover, nothing I said enjoins people from making political statements or protests.
- fomine3 6y ago
  Would you say same thing for using encrypted communication app like Telegram, PGP?
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
    Perhaps not. Private communication is more central to our national values than customized money. That's why only one of those two things is protected by the constitution. That being said, I don't think they'd really get far with such a rule, since any prosecution based on it would be easily challenged on constitutional grounds. So we will probably never find out what in fact I would say about it.

kache_ 6y ago

If you're using monero correctly, no one should know you own any.

pas 6y ago
How can one buy Monero anonymously? Let's say I have 100 USD and a bank card, what's the step by step process? Does this also work with 1 000 000 USD?
- DarthGhandi 6y ago
  I'm not sure how you are going to stay anonymous buying anything with a bank card. Using cash then localmoneros or bisq would be fine.
  - Forbo 6y ago
    This answer is completely grounded in fact, so I vouched for it. Even without the bank card number itself, many places used tokenized versions of the card number for tracking purposes.
- akimball 6y ago
  Find someone to sell you Monero. Give them $1mm and your address. Receive Monero. Alternatively, buy bitcoin through your bank. Use it to buy monero on an exchange. Alternatively, wait 6-9 months and exchange your btc with xmr using an atomic swap, on-chain.
  - _-___________-_ 6y ago
    > Find someone to sell you Monero. Give them $1mm and your address. Receive Monero. How do you ensure this person does not know who you are, whilst also ensuring they don't steal your $1m? > Alternatively, buy bitcoin through your bank. Use it to buy monero on an exchange. Difficult to do this anonymously.
    - 6y ago

woah 6y ago

If you're arrested for something, your possession of a pry bar might count as evidence you were involved in criminal activity

webmaven 6y ago

> "Indicative of possible criminal conduct" means more than just "looking like a criminal." That means, if you were to be arrested for something, your use of Monero might count as evidence that you were involved in criminal activity. Combined with enough other circumstantial evidence, it might even contribute to your conviction, even without a smoking gun. This would depend on the judge and jury, but it's worth noting. A bigger issue might be if it counts as "probable cause" to get a warrant. Seizure of records and computers would put a crimp in anyone's day, even with no conviction or even an arrest.[0] Heck, even if all it does is in practical terms is to raise the odds of an IRS audit a bit, or raise the odds of an audit becoming a criminal investigation (by being considered a "badge of fraud"[1]), that would be enough to squelch adoption. [0] Maybe Steve Jackson Games should start working on a "Cryptopunk" GURPS module and get raided[2] again: http://www.sjgames.com/SS/ http://www.sjgames.com/SS/ [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraudulent_conveyance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraudulent_conveyance [2] Holy crapoly, that was 30 years ago. Damn, I feel old.