4 ms·

For people who don’t enjoy doing CRUD and want to play with massive infrastructures, systems level programming and everything in between VFX can be pretty fun!

by aprdm 6y ago

For people who don’t enjoy doing CRUD and want to play with massive infrastructures, systems level programming and everything in between VFX can be pretty fun! If people are looking for FAANG level compensation then look the other way. Thanks for writing this !

packetlost 6y ago
There isn't much that competes with FAANG in terms of compensation, but what is the compensation like for that industry? I have a personal interest in film making and photography in addition to being a (quantum) systems programmer, so this could be a potential career move for me in the future.
- dagmx 6y ago
  The pay I would say is competitive for programming jobs in the respective areas as long as you're not comparing to the top tier companies. Even then, base pay isn't so far off, but you don't get equity. In Vancouver for example, a programming job in the film industry and outside it will net you 90-150k on the high end, and film pays equally well in that area. In LA, you have a lot of FAANG companies entering the film industry too with FAANG wages. Netflix in particular is bonkers high.
  - aprdm 6y ago
    FWIW I don't think Netflix pays as well for people doing more VFX-y python work in their pipelines. Have been contacted and wasn't impressed. It was also the case with others I know. Maybe it wasn't the right roles but it was, IMO, much lower than a senior software dev in a big studio Vancouver as far as cost of life goes.
    - dagmx 6y ago
      Oh that's odd because my friends there in pipeline are making 3x what they were in Vancouver, especially after currency conversion. Maybe they've petered down since but it was a significant amount when I spoke to them
      - aprdm 6y ago
        If it is the people I am thinking about (small industry :P ) then for sure! But I wouldn't say they're doing python pipeline kind of work (like your post).
        Arelius 6y ago
        Personally I don't know anyone that moved over in pipeline, and not sure they are really doing much in that. But for more R&D style roles I've seen it reflect what the parent was saying. I guess I'm just saying that I agree with this thread.
  - boulos 6y ago
    > base pay isn't so far off, but you don't get equity. This is the best summary of the situation. Sadly, there doesn't seem to be any levels.fyi data from any of the studios. Anecdotally, film, like the game industry, has a history of paying less than the overall market rate for software engineering because there are a lot of people who love it. Some of the [animation] studios (e.g., Pixar, PDI) have also historically issued annual bonuses based on how the films performed. Visual Effects, however, isn't like that because the work is done for other studios. For example, MPC did much of the visual effects for both Jungle Book and The Lion King, both of which were produced and distributed by Disney.
    - bradknowles 6y ago
      Don’t forget Rhythm and Hues who famously went bankrupt and out of business, in the same year they won an Oscar for Best Special Effects. This is not a business you want to be in, if you care about making money. If you do this kind of thing because this is who you are, what you eat, breathe, drink, and dream, and there is no other thing you are capable of doing on the planet, then you might be able to make enough money to eat ramen for dinner.
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  The pay is usually good but not great. The reason I've left at times was due to sweatshop conditions. Although that hits artist positions harder than technical ones. A lot of places still have 50 hour weeks for everyone, which frankly sucks.
  - aprdm 6y ago
    I have worked at several big studios and never witnessed 50h weeks as the norm. Core Pipeline / R&D do overtime very rarely and have a 40h/week with a lot of flexibility. Artists is a different world and can feel very sweatshop-y around delivery dates for sure. There's a lot of crunch time -- probably similar to the gaming industry. I wouldn't recommend being an artist in VFX unless you're extremely passionate about it.
    - boulos 6y ago
      Hmm. Image Movers Digital (IMD) was definitely 50-weeks minimum. IIRC, the "original" DD had the same policy.
      - biztos 6y ago
        Out of curiosity, if it's a policy is it in your contract? Or is it on the company intranet or something? I've worked at places (not the movie biz) that had quite long hours but they always pretended it was 40h weeks and the extra was going "above and beyond," which everyone did who cared at all about ever getting a promotion or raise.
        mixmastamyk 6y ago
        Yes, every contract explicitly said 50h/week paid hourly. Going home "on time" means a 20% pay cut. 40-50 wasn't even overtime. On the plus side if you're young and single you'll be happy to get a "free" dinner.
    - Arelius 6y ago
      This has been my experience also. It seems the closer you get to a single project the more your likely to overwork, while the more core you get the more steady the work seems to be. It seems to make sense as it's less sustainable to keep your core teams in crunch literally 24/7
- thewebcount 6y ago
  FWIW, I worked for a FAANG company writing VFX software for a while. There are frequently openings if you're interested. We made FAANG wages (and other compensation), as you can imagine. We hired a lot from the nearby studios in LA – Dreamworks (who perpetually seemed to be a month away from or a month past a layoff), Sony, and some of the smaller effects houses. We even had a few former game programmers who did lots of graphics work. People from the film studios indicated that the conditions at the studios were suboptimal compared to working at a FAANG company, though compensation didn't seem too much worse.
- Arelius 6y ago
  Yeah, just take your FAANG base pay, and don't add on any of the large bonuses or stock grants. In my experience this holds pretty true for more senior roles, It seems to go down much more sharply as the roles get more junior.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
101008 6y ago
I would love to (and I am a senior python dev), but I have zero experience in this area. Is still possible to get a job?
- dagmx 6y ago
  Yes, but it depends on your area of expertise. The film industry employs lots of people in infrastructure roles. Building services for task and asset Management. Websites. Data flow. There's a lot of the bread and butter programming jobs as well
  - milquetoastaf 6y ago
    Is there a job board or aggregator for these specific roles? Would love to check them out
- aprdm 6y ago
  Yep! Look for roles in core pipeline, Random example: https://jobs.jobvite.com/lucascompanies/search?l=&c=Production%20Technology%20(R%26D,%20PE,%20Pipeline)&s=Industrial%20Light%20%26%20Magic&q= https://jobs.jobvite.com/lucascompanies/search?l=&c=Producti... and https://jobs.jobvite.com/lucascompanies/search?l=&c=Technology%20(IT,%20IS,%20Media%20Systems)&s=Industrial%20Light%20%26%20Magic&q= https://jobs.jobvite.com/lucascompanies/search?l=&c=Technolo... for Industrial Light & Magic.
  - 101008 6y ago
    Thanks!
- dylan604 6y ago
  Don't limit your search to feature film type of post houses. Any post house with an animation department will need technical directors to work with pipeline workflows. Not just animation but anything needing heavy compositing, or workflows just working in frame sequences.
musingsole 6y ago
That would be an awesome field to move into. I'm so hungry for a field where I can use programming to solve problems so far away from the code itself that perhaps I could escape the cargo-cult mentalities and just focus on getting the job done. Such was life at a manufacturing firm that couldn't care in the slightest what language/pattern/framework (those questions scared management because it meant there was part of their business they didn't understand) was used as long as it gave them what they wanted.
person_of_color 6y ago
Do all posts on lawyers and doctors forums degrade into arguing about comp?

by aprdm 6y ago

packetlost 6y ago

There isn't much that competes with FAANG in terms of compensation, but what is the compensation like for that industry? I have a personal interest in film making and photography in addition to being a (quantum) systems programmer, so this could be a potential career move for me in the future.

dagmx 6y ago
The pay I would say is competitive for programming jobs in the respective areas as long as you're not comparing to the top tier companies. Even then, base pay isn't so far off, but you don't get equity. In Vancouver for example, a programming job in the film industry and outside it will net you 90-150k on the high end, and film pays equally well in that area. In LA, you have a lot of FAANG companies entering the film industry too with FAANG wages. Netflix in particular is bonkers high.
- aprdm 6y ago
  FWIW I don't think Netflix pays as well for people doing more VFX-y python work in their pipelines. Have been contacted and wasn't impressed. It was also the case with others I know. Maybe it wasn't the right roles but it was, IMO, much lower than a senior software dev in a big studio Vancouver as far as cost of life goes.
  - dagmx 6y ago
    Oh that's odd because my friends there in pipeline are making 3x what they were in Vancouver, especially after currency conversion. Maybe they've petered down since but it was a significant amount when I spoke to them
    - aprdm 6y ago
      If it is the people I am thinking about (small industry :P ) then for sure! But I wouldn't say they're doing python pipeline kind of work (like your post).
      - Arelius 6y ago
        Personally I don't know anyone that moved over in pipeline, and not sure they are really doing much in that. But for more R&D style roles I've seen it reflect what the parent was saying. I guess I'm just saying that I agree with this thread.
- boulos 6y ago
  > base pay isn't so far off, but you don't get equity. This is the best summary of the situation. Sadly, there doesn't seem to be any levels.fyi data from any of the studios. Anecdotally, film, like the game industry, has a history of paying less than the overall market rate for software engineering because there are a lot of people who love it. Some of the [animation] studios (e.g., Pixar, PDI) have also historically issued annual bonuses based on how the films performed. Visual Effects, however, isn't like that because the work is done for other studios. For example, MPC did much of the visual effects for both Jungle Book and The Lion King, both of which were produced and distributed by Disney.
  - bradknowles 6y ago
    Don’t forget Rhythm and Hues who famously went bankrupt and out of business, in the same year they won an Oscar for Best Special Effects. This is not a business you want to be in, if you care about making money. If you do this kind of thing because this is who you are, what you eat, breathe, drink, and dream, and there is no other thing you are capable of doing on the planet, then you might be able to make enough money to eat ramen for dinner.
mixmastamyk 6y ago
The pay is usually good but not great. The reason I've left at times was due to sweatshop conditions. Although that hits artist positions harder than technical ones. A lot of places still have 50 hour weeks for everyone, which frankly sucks.
- aprdm 6y ago
  I have worked at several big studios and never witnessed 50h weeks as the norm. Core Pipeline / R&D do overtime very rarely and have a 40h/week with a lot of flexibility. Artists is a different world and can feel very sweatshop-y around delivery dates for sure. There's a lot of crunch time -- probably similar to the gaming industry. I wouldn't recommend being an artist in VFX unless you're extremely passionate about it.
  - boulos 6y ago
    Hmm. Image Movers Digital (IMD) was definitely 50-weeks minimum. IIRC, the "original" DD had the same policy.
    - biztos 6y ago
      Out of curiosity, if it's a policy is it in your contract? Or is it on the company intranet or something? I've worked at places (not the movie biz) that had quite long hours but they always pretended it was 40h weeks and the extra was going "above and beyond," which everyone did who cared at all about ever getting a promotion or raise.
      - mixmastamyk 6y ago
        Yes, every contract explicitly said 50h/week paid hourly. Going home "on time" means a 20% pay cut. 40-50 wasn't even overtime. On the plus side if you're young and single you'll be happy to get a "free" dinner.
  - Arelius 6y ago
    This has been my experience also. It seems the closer you get to a single project the more your likely to overwork, while the more core you get the more steady the work seems to be. It seems to make sense as it's less sustainable to keep your core teams in crunch literally 24/7
thewebcount 6y ago
FWIW, I worked for a FAANG company writing VFX software for a while. There are frequently openings if you're interested. We made FAANG wages (and other compensation), as you can imagine. We hired a lot from the nearby studios in LA – Dreamworks (who perpetually seemed to be a month away from or a month past a layoff), Sony, and some of the smaller effects houses. We even had a few former game programmers who did lots of graphics work. People from the film studios indicated that the conditions at the studios were suboptimal compared to working at a FAANG company, though compensation didn't seem too much worse.
Arelius 6y ago
Yeah, just take your FAANG base pay, and don't add on any of the large bonuses or stock grants. In my experience this holds pretty true for more senior roles, It seems to go down much more sharply as the roles get more junior.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

101008 6y ago

I would love to (and I am a senior python dev), but I have zero experience in this area. Is still possible to get a job?

dagmx 6y ago
Yes, but it depends on your area of expertise. The film industry employs lots of people in infrastructure roles. Building services for task and asset Management. Websites. Data flow. There's a lot of the bread and butter programming jobs as well
- milquetoastaf 6y ago
  Is there a job board or aggregator for these specific roles? Would love to check them out
aprdm 6y ago
Yep! Look for roles in core pipeline, Random example: https://jobs.jobvite.com/lucascompanies/search?l=&c=Production%20Technology%20(R%26D,%20PE,%20Pipeline)&s=Industrial%20Light%20%26%20Magic&q= https://jobs.jobvite.com/lucascompanies/search?l=&c=Producti... and https://jobs.jobvite.com/lucascompanies/search?l=&c=Technology%20(IT,%20IS,%20Media%20Systems)&s=Industrial%20Light%20%26%20Magic&q= https://jobs.jobvite.com/lucascompanies/search?l=&c=Technolo... for Industrial Light & Magic.
- 101008 6y ago
  Thanks!
dylan604 6y ago
Don't limit your search to feature film type of post houses. Any post house with an animation department will need technical directors to work with pipeline workflows. Not just animation but anything needing heavy compositing, or workflows just working in frame sequences.

musingsole 6y ago

That would be an awesome field to move into. I'm so hungry for a field where I can use programming to solve problems so far away from the code itself that perhaps I could escape the cargo-cult mentalities and just focus on getting the job done. Such was life at a manufacturing firm that couldn't care in the slightest what language/pattern/framework (those questions scared management because it meant there was part of their business they didn't understand) was used as long as it gave them what they wanted.

person_of_color 6y ago

Do all posts on lawyers and doctors forums degrade into arguing about comp?