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Google allows 3rd party app stores and direct installation of apps on Android. If not allowing a donation link is an issue the author is free to distribute the

by tssva 6y ago

Google allows 3rd party app stores and direct installation of apps on Android. If not allowing a donation link is an issue the author is free to distribute the Wireguard app purely through other means.

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
That's basically like saying they are free to distribute their app on their own terms solely in North Dakota. And also, they put up a big sign telling everyone it's dangerous to go to North Dakota so stay out.
- dessant 6y ago
  > And also, they put up a big sign telling everyone it's dangerous to go to North Dakota so stay out. That's such an apt analogy, considering that Google Play Protect will helpfully offer to remove sideloaded apps every chance it gets, citing security.
  - lern_too_spel 6y ago
    I have not had this experience, and I sideload a lot of apps. What sideloaded apps has it offered to remove?
heavyset_go 6y ago
Google has hindered Android such that app stores cannot compete with the Play Store on feature parity. App stores cannot implement batch installs, background installation or updates, or automatic upgrades, but the Play Store can.
- izacus 6y ago
  I'm sorry, but that is not true at all. The altnerantive stores available on current phones (Samsung, Huawei, etc.) have all the capabilites of the builtin store. For all the crap Google does, you really don't have to make things up :/
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    Rooting phones or installing strange ROMs from XDA-Developers isn't something normal users are capable of. If I buy a LG phone, can I install the Samsung or Huawei store and use the features that the Play Store has without rooting my phone or using a weird ROM? Why is it that if I want to use an app store that works on every Android device like F-Droid, I need to root my phone to have some feature parity with the Play Store?
    - izacus 6y ago
      > Why is it that if I want to use an app store that works on every Android device like F-Droid, I need to root my phone to have some feature parity with the Play Store? Because silently replacing software on your phone is a very problematic safety vector. To the point where Apple doesn't allow granting that to anyone ever.
      - komali2 6y ago
        Why can't I decide to turn off that security "feature" on the computer I bought? Why can't I do what I want with my computer???
        dariusj18 6y ago
        Sometimes security features are a blunt hammer and it takes time to develop a more nuanced solution. And if it's everything as reported, Android 12 will include this ability.
  - dessant 6y ago
    I think they're referring to the fact that as a user you cannot install a third-party app store with the same capabilities as Google Play, F-Droid can't install apps in the background on a non-rooted device. Device manufacturers are of course allowed to ship with alternative app stores, though Google is also trying to interfere with those decisions by holding access to Google Play Services as ransom, even if the practice was previously deemed illegal by the European Union. https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21368395/fortnite-epic-games-oneplus-deal-google-play-store-lawsuit-lg https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21368395/fortnite-epic-ga... https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_18_4581 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_18_...
wolco2 6y ago
As an android user I have to turn on untrusted sources in the settings to download outside of the playstore. It actively discourages you.
skrowl 6y ago
In fact, they already do https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.wireguard.android/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.wireguard.android/ in this case, including a donation link on the app listing page
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  Having an F-Droid version that costs nothing but has a donation link and a Play Store version that is not free is a common monetization pattern for open source projects on Android. See also: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.gcompris.full https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.gcompris.f... vs. https://f-droid.org/packages/net.gcompris.full https://f-droid.org/packages/net.gcompris.full https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mkulesh.micromath.plus https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mkulesh.mi... vs. https://f-droid.org/packages/com.mkulesh.micromath.plus https://f-droid.org/packages/com.mkulesh.micromath.plus When Google gives me free Play Store credit, I often "donate" it this way.
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    The problem is this is a very inefficient donation: A third of it goes to a greedy for-profit corporation that actively causes societal harm. If you're using Play Store credit for it, sure, nobody but Google is paying the bill. But for everyone else who buys the app, it's a pretty poor donation method.
    - lern_too_spel 6y ago
      > The problem is this is a very inefficient donation: How is it inefficient? Google gave me that money for free, and I sent 70% of it to the project and 30% back to Google. > A third of it goes to a greedy for-profit corporation that actively causes societal harm. Also wrong. Less than a third of it goes to anybody but the app publisher. Of the 30% that doesn't go to the app publisher, some portion goes to the payment processor (usually card processor or mobile service provider, only Google if you pay with credits). > But for everyone else who buys the app, it's a pretty poor donation method. They can also donate via F-Droid, as I showed in my post. The fact that it costs anything at all on the Play Store encourages users to get the app from the author directly or from F-Droid, both of which give the app away for free and can show preferred donation links. They get to benefit from wide distribution and discovery via Play Store and better monetization via donation links. Compare to iOS, where the open source authors are screwed.

by tssva 6y ago

ocdtrekkie 6y ago

That's basically like saying they are free to distribute their app on their own terms solely in North Dakota. And also, they put up a big sign telling everyone it's dangerous to go to North Dakota so stay out.

dessant 6y ago
> And also, they put up a big sign telling everyone it's dangerous to go to North Dakota so stay out. That's such an apt analogy, considering that Google Play Protect will helpfully offer to remove sideloaded apps every chance it gets, citing security.
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  I have not had this experience, and I sideload a lot of apps. What sideloaded apps has it offered to remove?

heavyset_go 6y ago

Google has hindered Android such that app stores cannot compete with the Play Store on feature parity. App stores cannot implement batch installs, background installation or updates, or automatic upgrades, but the Play Store can.

izacus 6y ago
I'm sorry, but that is not true at all. The altnerantive stores available on current phones (Samsung, Huawei, etc.) have all the capabilites of the builtin store. For all the crap Google does, you really don't have to make things up :/
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  Rooting phones or installing strange ROMs from XDA-Developers isn't something normal users are capable of. If I buy a LG phone, can I install the Samsung or Huawei store and use the features that the Play Store has without rooting my phone or using a weird ROM? Why is it that if I want to use an app store that works on every Android device like F-Droid, I need to root my phone to have some feature parity with the Play Store?
  - izacus 6y ago
    > Why is it that if I want to use an app store that works on every Android device like F-Droid, I need to root my phone to have some feature parity with the Play Store? Because silently replacing software on your phone is a very problematic safety vector. To the point where Apple doesn't allow granting that to anyone ever.
    - komali2 6y ago
      Why can't I decide to turn off that security "feature" on the computer I bought? Why can't I do what I want with my computer???
      - dariusj18 6y ago
        Sometimes security features are a blunt hammer and it takes time to develop a more nuanced solution. And if it's everything as reported, Android 12 will include this ability.
- dessant 6y ago
  I think they're referring to the fact that as a user you cannot install a third-party app store with the same capabilities as Google Play, F-Droid can't install apps in the background on a non-rooted device. Device manufacturers are of course allowed to ship with alternative app stores, though Google is also trying to interfere with those decisions by holding access to Google Play Services as ransom, even if the practice was previously deemed illegal by the European Union. https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21368395/fortnite-epic-games-oneplus-deal-google-play-store-lawsuit-lg https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21368395/fortnite-epic-ga... https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_18_4581 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_18_...

wolco2 6y ago

As an android user I have to turn on untrusted sources in the settings to download outside of the playstore. It actively discourages you.

skrowl 6y ago

In fact, they already do https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.wireguard.android/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.wireguard.android/ in this case, including a donation link on the app listing page

lern_too_spel 6y ago
Having an F-Droid version that costs nothing but has a donation link and a Play Store version that is not free is a common monetization pattern for open source projects on Android. See also: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.gcompris.full https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.gcompris.f... vs. https://f-droid.org/packages/net.gcompris.full https://f-droid.org/packages/net.gcompris.full https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mkulesh.micromath.plus https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mkulesh.mi... vs. https://f-droid.org/packages/com.mkulesh.micromath.plus https://f-droid.org/packages/com.mkulesh.micromath.plus When Google gives me free Play Store credit, I often "donate" it this way.
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  The problem is this is a very inefficient donation: A third of it goes to a greedy for-profit corporation that actively causes societal harm. If you're using Play Store credit for it, sure, nobody but Google is paying the bill. But for everyone else who buys the app, it's a pretty poor donation method.
  - lern_too_spel 6y ago
    > The problem is this is a very inefficient donation: How is it inefficient? Google gave me that money for free, and I sent 70% of it to the project and 30% back to Google. > A third of it goes to a greedy for-profit corporation that actively causes societal harm. Also wrong. Less than a third of it goes to anybody but the app publisher. Of the 30% that doesn't go to the app publisher, some portion goes to the payment processor (usually card processor or mobile service provider, only Google if you pay with credits). > But for everyone else who buys the app, it's a pretty poor donation method. They can also donate via F-Droid, as I showed in my post. The fact that it costs anything at all on the Play Store encourages users to get the app from the author directly or from F-Droid, both of which give the app away for free and can show preferred donation links. They get to benefit from wide distribution and discovery via Play Store and better monetization via donation links. Compare to iOS, where the open source authors are screwed.