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Sorry if I missed something while reading this. Does this system reduce the dependency on added Nitrogen (given the luming Nitrogen crisis coming in the future

by swalsh 6y ago

Sorry if I missed something while reading this. Does this system reduce the dependency on added Nitrogen (given the luming Nitrogen crisis coming in the future if current rates persist)?

Retric 6y ago
We are extracting Nitrogen from the atmosphere, that isn’t going to run out. Ammonia is made from Nitrogen and Hydrogen, it’s the Hydrogen that’s extracted from natural gas. However, splitting it from water is again effectively unlimited and not that expensive. Phosphorus is plentiful, current methods give us a 300+ year supply and other options exist. Potassium is a little more questionable we are likely to need to mine the ocean floors fairly soon which would spike prices, but it could ultimately be a closed loop where we are collecting the runoff.
- TheNorthman 6y ago
  The problem isn't us running out of nitrogen, the problem is the impact that nitrogen deposition has on terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems.
  - Retric 6y ago
    I agree that’s a problem, however unlike most environmental issues runoff is an inefficiency not a byproduct. Farmers that more efficiently use fertilizer directly have less runoff. So, generally the economic incentives are in close alignment. The US for example has seen a significant reduction in runoff without that much pushback from farmers. That said, there is a point where with wasted fertilizer costs less than the methods of avoiding runoff, which changes the dynamics.
  - himinlomax 6y ago
    You can have nitrogen runoff problems whether you use artificial fertilizer or manure, the only difference is that people who use manure typically (though not always) are more careful about it.
flyingfences 6y ago
> The system’s sole source of fertility is leguminous cover crops
marketingPro 6y ago
I didn't know such a problem may be coming. Would everyone composting solve this? If anyone was unaware, urine is high in nitrogen and when added to compost is like "adding gas to fire, but slower". I never had an issue with Nitrogen in my compost. I can see nitrogen going to waste if food ends up in a landfill, but I imagine our sewage systems recycle this for profit. Is this manageable with habit changes?
- kickout 6y ago
  No, the scale of agriculture is too big for residential solutions to move the needle. Need economic incentives for these eco-friendly practices.
  - marketingPro 6y ago
    I did a crappy Google search and I found 50% of food is eaten by humans. I think you are incorrect here. 50% of nitrogen goes to waste if no one composts.
Ensorceled 6y ago
Search for nitrogen in the original article, it definitely reduces the need for added nitrogen. Adding lots of cheap nitrogen is something we've become addicted to ... farmers used to rotate crops etc. There is another article on this site about how corn will uptake far more nitrogen than it needs, so cheap, abundant nitrogen isn't really as necessary as we believe.
refurb 6y ago
Nitrogen crisis? First I’ve heard of this. Have an links to educate myself?

by swalsh 6y ago

Sorry if I missed something while reading this. Does this system reduce the dependency on added Nitrogen (given the luming Nitrogen crisis coming in the future if current rates persist)?

Retric 6y ago

We are extracting Nitrogen from the atmosphere, that isn’t going to run out. Ammonia is made from Nitrogen and Hydrogen, it’s the Hydrogen that’s extracted from natural gas. However, splitting it from water is again effectively unlimited and not that expensive. Phosphorus is plentiful, current methods give us a 300+ year supply and other options exist. Potassium is a little more questionable we are likely to need to mine the ocean floors fairly soon which would spike prices, but it could ultimately be a closed loop where we are collecting the runoff.

TheNorthman 6y ago
The problem isn't us running out of nitrogen, the problem is the impact that nitrogen deposition has on terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems.
- Retric 6y ago
  I agree that’s a problem, however unlike most environmental issues runoff is an inefficiency not a byproduct. Farmers that more efficiently use fertilizer directly have less runoff. So, generally the economic incentives are in close alignment. The US for example has seen a significant reduction in runoff without that much pushback from farmers. That said, there is a point where with wasted fertilizer costs less than the methods of avoiding runoff, which changes the dynamics.
- himinlomax 6y ago
  You can have nitrogen runoff problems whether you use artificial fertilizer or manure, the only difference is that people who use manure typically (though not always) are more careful about it.

flyingfences 6y ago

> The system’s sole source of fertility is leguminous cover crops

marketingPro 6y ago

I didn't know such a problem may be coming. Would everyone composting solve this? If anyone was unaware, urine is high in nitrogen and when added to compost is like "adding gas to fire, but slower". I never had an issue with Nitrogen in my compost. I can see nitrogen going to waste if food ends up in a landfill, but I imagine our sewage systems recycle this for profit. Is this manageable with habit changes?

kickout 6y ago
No, the scale of agriculture is too big for residential solutions to move the needle. Need economic incentives for these eco-friendly practices.
- marketingPro 6y ago
  I did a crappy Google search and I found 50% of food is eaten by humans. I think you are incorrect here. 50% of nitrogen goes to waste if no one composts.

Ensorceled 6y ago

Search for nitrogen in the original article, it definitely reduces the need for added nitrogen. Adding lots of cheap nitrogen is something we've become addicted to ... farmers used to rotate crops etc. There is another article on this site about how corn will uptake far more nitrogen than it needs, so cheap, abundant nitrogen isn't really as necessary as we believe.

refurb 6y ago

Nitrogen crisis? First I’ve heard of this. Have an links to educate myself?