5 ms·

There is no neutrality in reporting, so you might as well have something that wears their bias on their sleeve.

fennecfoxen 6y ago
Maybe there isn’t but you can usually do better at neutrality than a magazine that names itself after a bunch of violent revolutionaries who helped usher in the Reign of Terror, and which since then has become a byword for hard left extremism.
- cmrdporcupine 6y ago
  That's not actually who it is named after. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Jacobins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Jacobins But you'd have to read to figure that out.
  - fennecfoxen 6y ago
    You link to this article as if the French Revolution isn’t indicated as the inspiration of the movement and the source of the name, and no one involved is laying claim to the tradition. Downvote harder, Bolsheviks.
    - ianleeclark 6y ago
      > You link to this article as if the French Revolution isn’t indicated as the inspiration of the movement No matter what way you cut it, the absolutely brutal chattel slavery was the inspiration of the movement, not Robespierre.
      - fennecfoxen 6y ago
        Yes, and good for them. That’s a fine reason to start a movement. It’s still the name and the magazine is still explicitly about the tradition of socialism. It’s still about as neutral as interviewing Trump in Breitbart, and only a few steps away from the neutrality of interviewing Stalin in Pravda.
    - cmrdporcupine 6y ago
      I link to this article as an antidote to your pithy and hostile response, which flamed without actually looking at the source material. For what it's worth Jacobin is on the whole a social democratic ("democratic socialist") publication, basically a mouthpiece of the DSA, and not particularly radical. But saying it's a step-away from Pravda is about par for the course for the absolutely ideologically distorted "centre" of American politics within which someone like Obama can be labelled as "socialist" and mistakenly uses "socialist" as slur to describe anything that the government is involved in. In any case, there was a time in which mainstream US publications would deign to interview people like Morales even when they were ideologically miles apart from them. Even Castro got some interview space in US newspapers back in the 60s. That time has past -- a coup was executed in Bolivia, justifications printed for it, a brutal racist regime installed, and "democrats" in the US sat back and said nothing.
  - Mikhail_Edoshin 6y ago
    But those Black Jacobins are named after French Jacobins.
- tokai 6y ago
  It funny cause I have heard the name being criticized for being related to a liberal, bourgeois revolution. And thus being too rightist.
- AlstZam 6y ago
  This is an oversimplified description of Jacobinism. Between the dogma, the history/ (French revolution, England), the evolution through time and the use of it by different political groups it is difficult to summarize it by Jacobin = "hard left extremism". In fact this reference can by use all over the political spectrum. For example, the idea of a strong centralized state power speak to communists (left) as well as nationalists (right). As well, the idea of equality of every citizen of jacobinism can be closer to centrist than extremist. Fun remark : only the English Wikipedia article emphasis so much on a link Jacobin-left (for the languages i can read). On the other hand, the french article is much more careful and emphasis more on the difficulty and evolution of interpretation.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
qsort 6y ago
There's no solution to the halting problem, so you might as well stop writing garbage collectors. How does the argument "people are biased, therefore anything goes" appeal to anybody is beyond me.
- ianleeclark 6y ago
  I'm not saying, "people are biased, therefore anything goes." I'm saying: chasing neutrality is akin to chasing a unicorn.
  - qsort 6y ago
    It isn't though. You can never be truly neutral, but that's not an excuse not to try.
    - ianleeclark 6y ago
      > You can never be truly neutral, but that's not an excuse not to try. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe a magazine doesn't want to be neutral? Maybe that's their competitive edge, maybe that's what their customers are after. You're just imposing your own values on a business entity.
      - qsort 6y ago
        Yes, I absolutely am. They are free to do as they please. I am free to criticize them because that doesn't align to my values. Freedom works both ways.

Maybe there isn’t but you can usually do better at neutrality than a magazine that names itself after a bunch of violent revolutionaries who helped usher in the Reign of Terror, and which since then has become a byword for hard left extremism.

cmrdporcupine 6y ago
That's not actually who it is named after. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Jacobins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Jacobins But you'd have to read to figure that out.
- fennecfoxen 6y ago
  You link to this article as if the French Revolution isn’t indicated as the inspiration of the movement and the source of the name, and no one involved is laying claim to the tradition. Downvote harder, Bolsheviks.
  - ianleeclark 6y ago
    > You link to this article as if the French Revolution isn’t indicated as the inspiration of the movement No matter what way you cut it, the absolutely brutal chattel slavery was the inspiration of the movement, not Robespierre.
    - fennecfoxen 6y ago
      Yes, and good for them. That’s a fine reason to start a movement. It’s still the name and the magazine is still explicitly about the tradition of socialism. It’s still about as neutral as interviewing Trump in Breitbart, and only a few steps away from the neutrality of interviewing Stalin in Pravda.
  - cmrdporcupine 6y ago
    I link to this article as an antidote to your pithy and hostile response, which flamed without actually looking at the source material. For what it's worth Jacobin is on the whole a social democratic ("democratic socialist") publication, basically a mouthpiece of the DSA, and not particularly radical. But saying it's a step-away from Pravda is about par for the course for the absolutely ideologically distorted "centre" of American politics within which someone like Obama can be labelled as "socialist" and mistakenly uses "socialist" as slur to describe anything that the government is involved in. In any case, there was a time in which mainstream US publications would deign to interview people like Morales even when they were ideologically miles apart from them. Even Castro got some interview space in US newspapers back in the 60s. That time has past -- a coup was executed in Bolivia, justifications printed for it, a brutal racist regime installed, and "democrats" in the US sat back and said nothing.
- Mikhail_Edoshin 6y ago
  But those Black Jacobins are named after French Jacobins.
tokai 6y ago
It funny cause I have heard the name being criticized for being related to a liberal, bourgeois revolution. And thus being too rightist.
AlstZam 6y ago
This is an oversimplified description of Jacobinism. Between the dogma, the history/ (French revolution, England), the evolution through time and the use of it by different political groups it is difficult to summarize it by Jacobin = "hard left extremism". In fact this reference can by use all over the political spectrum. For example, the idea of a strong centralized state power speak to communists (left) as well as nationalists (right). As well, the idea of equality of every citizen of jacobinism can be closer to centrist than extremist. Fun remark : only the English Wikipedia article emphasis so much on a link Jacobin-left (for the languages i can read). On the other hand, the french article is much more careful and emphasis more on the difficulty and evolution of interpretation.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

qsort 6y ago

There's no solution to the halting problem, so you might as well stop writing garbage collectors. How does the argument "people are biased, therefore anything goes" appeal to anybody is beyond me.

ianleeclark 6y ago
I'm not saying, "people are biased, therefore anything goes." I'm saying: chasing neutrality is akin to chasing a unicorn.
- qsort 6y ago
  It isn't though. You can never be truly neutral, but that's not an excuse not to try.
  - ianleeclark 6y ago
    > You can never be truly neutral, but that's not an excuse not to try. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe a magazine doesn't want to be neutral? Maybe that's their competitive edge, maybe that's what their customers are after. You're just imposing your own values on a business entity.
    - qsort 6y ago
      Yes, I absolutely am. They are free to do as they please. I am free to criticize them because that doesn't align to my values. Freedom works both ways.