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> Chips that didn't exist in 1978. The overall point you're making is that technology from several years later was better. Not relevant. Years later, even the

> Chips that didn't exist in 1978. The overall point you're making is that technology from several years later was better. Not relevant. Years later, even the Apple IIc (1984) wasn't close to a C64, not to mention an Amiga. The thing you're missing is, Commodore had purchased MOS Technology, just like Apple purchased PA Semi to make their own iPhone SoCs, and had spent years investing in custom silicon going back to the VIC in 1979. The Apple II did not have a "video chip". Wozniak had cobbled together a video chip out of a bunch of 74LS TTL chips. Here, learn to built one yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7rce6IQDWs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7rce6IQDWs That's what I meant by "superior design". Commodore actually had integrated CMOS chips for video, audio, I/O, that they had designed in house and fabbed themselves. The Apple 2, well into the IIc days, was built like a semi-decent Arduino project. Even the Mac had gfx and DMA cobbled out of TTL chips.

quietbritishjim 6y ago
I think maybe you have some interesting information that's buried in a very confusing presentation - at least that's my best guess of what's going on. If you'd started your original comment with something like "Just a few years later, in 1984, Apple's new offering the IIc was barely any better than the original while C64 had a far superior (...) but Apples continued to sell better because of shallow marketing" it would've made it clear you were switching to a related but different subject. As it was, you seemed to just directly compare the original Apple against something much later. You don't seem to get why people keep making seemingly unrelated comments - it's because we're still applying your comments to the original Apple II, but you're actually not talking about that any more.
simonh 6y ago
>Not relevant. OK, explain to me how technology released in 1982 and 1984, and the sales of products not yet released, are relevant to statements about the then current state of affairs in 1978? You know, the topic of this whole thread. Maybe that's what I'm not understanding. Please enlighten me.
jhbadger 6y ago
And yet there's a reason why Woz is known to this day as a brilliant engineer. He basically did the impossible, designing color graphics and disk controllers without custom hardware. Obviously the design of a computer is much easier given custom chips.
- cromwellian 6y ago
  I love Woz, but he did so, because of what he was given. Apple was raking in tens of millions from the Apple 2, why didn't they give Woz a team of chip designers for the follow on products? I mean, the Mac was launched similarly with TTL based logic "GPU", compared with the Commodore Amiga 1 year later which launched with 3 custom ASICs just like the C64.

quietbritishjim 6y ago

I think maybe you have some interesting information that's buried in a very confusing presentation - at least that's my best guess of what's going on. If you'd started your original comment with something like "Just a few years later, in 1984, Apple's new offering the IIc was barely any better than the original while C64 had a far superior (...) but Apples continued to sell better because of shallow marketing" it would've made it clear you were switching to a related but different subject. As it was, you seemed to just directly compare the original Apple against something much later. You don't seem to get why people keep making seemingly unrelated comments - it's because we're still applying your comments to the original Apple II, but you're actually not talking about that any more.

simonh 6y ago

>Not relevant. OK, explain to me how technology released in 1982 and 1984, and the sales of products not yet released, are relevant to statements about the then current state of affairs in 1978? You know, the topic of this whole thread. Maybe that's what I'm not understanding. Please enlighten me.

jhbadger 6y ago

And yet there's a reason why Woz is known to this day as a brilliant engineer. He basically did the impossible, designing color graphics and disk controllers without custom hardware. Obviously the design of a computer is much easier given custom chips.

cromwellian 6y ago
I love Woz, but he did so, because of what he was given. Apple was raking in tens of millions from the Apple 2, why didn't they give Woz a team of chip designers for the follow on products? I mean, the Mac was launched similarly with TTL based logic "GPU", compared with the Commodore Amiga 1 year later which launched with 3 custom ASICs just like the C64.