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Not arguing that this could be used in an abusive relationship, but if we work on the basis that someone could install a similar program on their partner's phon

by Newky 6y ago

Not arguing that this could be used in an abusive relationship, but if we work on the basis that someone could install a similar program on their partner's phone that's not Google. There are a lot of pro's for the tracked person with the Google implementation. Google email you quite frequently (I believe monthly?) to tell you that you are sharing your location and with whom. You can disable it at any time. Obviously disabling such a feature in an abusive relationship may not be an option.

prox 6y ago
I fail to see upticks for sharing your location that couldn’t be resolved with a “Hey I am going to x” message
- adjkant 6y ago
  Some random things I use find my friends and Snapchat's map for: 1. Seeing if/when friends get home safe after a late night (they may forget to text before going to bed) 2. ETA of friends I'm meeting that travel by bike 3. Is X in the neighborhood if I wanted to stop by? (avoids the check message, still will check for most friends before showing up at the door) Sharing your location is a personal choice I'd never judge someone for not doing, but I very much enjoy it with close friends I trust.
  - prox 6y ago
    Ah I see, for a trusted friend group that could work. Thanks for sharing!
  - kace91 6y ago
    For the two first points, Whatsapp lets you share your location for a small amount of time (either 15 mins or 1 hour). It's very common when a group of people is going to hang out, so the rest of them that come a bit later doesn't need to go through the whole dance ("hey are you still at X place?" "have you moved?" "I can't see you" ) but still leaves you with privacy by default.
    - renewiltord 6y ago
      Google location sharing defaults to an hour.
    - adjkant 6y ago
      Many apps do it, I just use these two since I don't have Whatsapp. That said, optimizing for privacy by default for an already limited allow-list is not the right way to conceptualize this. That need to explicitly make the choice to share is a friction point, not a feature. What if my friend forgets? What if it's needed over an hour? Why does my possibly tipsy friend need to decide how long I need their location for in the moment? On by default is an explicit feature once you explicitly allow, and the need to grant each time is a bug. Google's original product appeared to strike a balance here with the "on by default but possible to reject" model pictured in the article which is interesting. Still, they understood they made an on by default product and the user value clearly. For friends father away on the social graph, those temporary shares are also great too! iMessage/Find My Friends has this and I use it exactly as you describe. But it's two separate use cases.
      - lucasverra 6y ago
        > Many apps do it, I just use these two since I don't have Whatsapp. Careful, you are handing your gps location at all time (to facebook) with that option (using IOS). I like the feature but i'm not using it anymore, just one shot location sharing from me
        adjkant 6y ago
        I think you misread - I don't have Whatsapp, and Facebook is a good part of that reason personally :) You're 100% correct though - if you use an app for this, you also need to trust the app owner!
- Angostura 6y ago
  Our family shares location with each other on Apple, mainly it gives our young teenagers a bit more freedom, and stops them from texting me when I'm in the middle of a rainy cycle home to ask 'are you coming home?'. My wife also has a cup of tea waiting for her when she gets back from work, thanks to a Geofence I have set up.
- nucleardog 6y ago
  Literally just not having to do that. Or having to have someone request your location case-by-case. Also better resolution. I’ve shared my location in one form or another with my girlfriend and now wife for a long time. “Hey can you come pick me up?” “Sure, leaving shortly” — not only do we not need to play some game figuring out exactly where the person needing pickup is (which is a huge boon because she’s awful with directions), but for the person being picked up it’s like Uber—you can see if they’ve left, how far out, etc. “You just about home?” — if we’re driving, we’re not going to respond to that. Instead it’s easy to answer a question like “when should I start supper”, even in the face of unpredictable traffic, just by checking the other person’s location instead of having to call and have them take a call while driving. And just from a general safety perspective—wife and baby go for a mid-day walk and a simple “hey you got your phone on you?” gives us both some piece of mind. She knows if she’s not back in some remotely realistic timeframe and doesn’t pick up her phone there’s someone that will come find her, I don’t have to just sit at home and try and decide if it’s been long enough to file a missing person report or if she’s just run into a friend at the park and is too engrossed to notice her phone in the stroller. And none of this requires any planning or communication. Also had previously shared my location with a good friend and business partner because when we were both travelling separately to meet with clients it made it a lot easier to coordinate, if you arrived early to be able to (accurately) say “oh he’s 5 minutes out” or see they were stuck in traffic and shortcut the awkwardness and just have the person who wasn’t driving be able to call and say you’d both be late instead of walking in and making awkward small talk forever, etc. I’m not going to share my location generally, but sharing selectively can be extremely convenient.
  - watwut 6y ago
    You people are really honestly timing dinner for exact time partner walks into the door? In situation where partner is going home at irregular times? I cant imagine doing that and cant imaging expecting that. > And just from a general safety perspective—wife and baby go for a mid-day walk and a simple “hey you got your phone on you?” gives us both some piece of mind. She knows if she’s not back in some remotely realistic timeframe and doesn’t pick up her phone there’s someone that will come find her I took huge amount of mid-day walks with kids and playground trips with kids and never ever needed someone to go find me. I did not needed husband to check how long I am away or anything like that. What exactly is "realistic timeframe" for walk with kid? For me, it could take anything between 20minutes and 4hours depending on weather, kids mood or my mood. But I did not needed husband to rescue me from dangers of local playground or park, like not once. I am not outlier, I do not know a single woman with baby in real life who would need that level or control in order to have peaceful mind. All these "realistic examples" make me wonder whether people did not normalized huge amount anxiety for themselves. Or they are made up.
- magicalhippo 6y ago
  I bike alone in the woods, and once beyond the initial few km it's quite unusual to see anyone else until I come back to the edge of the forest. It should be said I do prefer these less traveled sections. Anyway, if I have an bad accident[1], I might not be able to operate the phone. Either the phone could get damaged or I'm passed out, hurt or similar. Sharing the location in real-time with my gf, Google and possibly various governments seems preferable to lying hurt alone deep in the woods without anyone having a clue where I am. [1]: Friend of a friend had a front wheel puncture in a turn at the bottom of a hill, causing him to crash into some rocks. By sheer luck someone found him. He was passed out. The crash crushed his jaw, and he sustained severe brain damage. It's years since and he's still not recovered 100%.
- vorpalhex 6y ago
  My wife can't message me (safely) in the middle of driving home so I know to start heating up dinner. Likewise she can't let me know when traffic gets snarled and she's going to be an hour late.
  - artificial 6y ago
    Does the phone support a voice activated digital assistant where you can speak to control the phone? "Hey Siri, message $ name I'm stuck in traffic, my ETA is $x."
    - vorpalhex 6y ago
      We don't use voice assistants for privacy reasons. I'm OK with the tradeoff of my location being public because it's just not interesting (I alternate between work, home and the gym), but it's very important to me to not potentially have my verbal conversations leaked or recorded. That's my tradeoff matrix, yours may be different.
- jefftk 6y ago
  Often I'll take the kids out for a walk, and my wife may or may not want to join us depending on where we are. Because she can easily look up my location, she can make that decision without needing to talk to me.
- michaelbrooks 6y ago
  My wife is a pet sitter and pet sitting can actually be quite dangerous. She once got bit by a dog and called me to come and help. She was in too much shock to be able to explain where she was, and I'm absolutely terrible with directions so I was unable to locate her. Thankfully, she managed to calm down and resolve the situation as it was only a small bite, but if the situation was worse and I would have been too late to find her. We thought that we can't let this situation happen again, so we now share each other's location just in case anything like that happens again. It's also great knowing how far away she is so I can start dinner and have it ready for when she steps in the door.

by Newky 6y ago

prox 6y ago

I fail to see upticks for sharing your location that couldn’t be resolved with a “Hey I am going to x” message

adjkant 6y ago
Some random things I use find my friends and Snapchat's map for: 1. Seeing if/when friends get home safe after a late night (they may forget to text before going to bed) 2. ETA of friends I'm meeting that travel by bike 3. Is X in the neighborhood if I wanted to stop by? (avoids the check message, still will check for most friends before showing up at the door) Sharing your location is a personal choice I'd never judge someone for not doing, but I very much enjoy it with close friends I trust.
- prox 6y ago
  Ah I see, for a trusted friend group that could work. Thanks for sharing!
- kace91 6y ago
  For the two first points, Whatsapp lets you share your location for a small amount of time (either 15 mins or 1 hour). It's very common when a group of people is going to hang out, so the rest of them that come a bit later doesn't need to go through the whole dance ("hey are you still at X place?" "have you moved?" "I can't see you" ) but still leaves you with privacy by default.
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    Google location sharing defaults to an hour.
  - adjkant 6y ago
    Many apps do it, I just use these two since I don't have Whatsapp. That said, optimizing for privacy by default for an already limited allow-list is not the right way to conceptualize this. That need to explicitly make the choice to share is a friction point, not a feature. What if my friend forgets? What if it's needed over an hour? Why does my possibly tipsy friend need to decide how long I need their location for in the moment? On by default is an explicit feature once you explicitly allow, and the need to grant each time is a bug. Google's original product appeared to strike a balance here with the "on by default but possible to reject" model pictured in the article which is interesting. Still, they understood they made an on by default product and the user value clearly. For friends father away on the social graph, those temporary shares are also great too! iMessage/Find My Friends has this and I use it exactly as you describe. But it's two separate use cases.
    - lucasverra 6y ago
      > Many apps do it, I just use these two since I don't have Whatsapp. Careful, you are handing your gps location at all time (to facebook) with that option (using IOS). I like the feature but i'm not using it anymore, just one shot location sharing from me
      - adjkant 6y ago
        I think you misread - I don't have Whatsapp, and Facebook is a good part of that reason personally :) You're 100% correct though - if you use an app for this, you also need to trust the app owner!
Angostura 6y ago
Our family shares location with each other on Apple, mainly it gives our young teenagers a bit more freedom, and stops them from texting me when I'm in the middle of a rainy cycle home to ask 'are you coming home?'. My wife also has a cup of tea waiting for her when she gets back from work, thanks to a Geofence I have set up.
nucleardog 6y ago
Literally just not having to do that. Or having to have someone request your location case-by-case. Also better resolution. I’ve shared my location in one form or another with my girlfriend and now wife for a long time. “Hey can you come pick me up?” “Sure, leaving shortly” — not only do we not need to play some game figuring out exactly where the person needing pickup is (which is a huge boon because she’s awful with directions), but for the person being picked up it’s like Uber—you can see if they’ve left, how far out, etc. “You just about home?” — if we’re driving, we’re not going to respond to that. Instead it’s easy to answer a question like “when should I start supper”, even in the face of unpredictable traffic, just by checking the other person’s location instead of having to call and have them take a call while driving. And just from a general safety perspective—wife and baby go for a mid-day walk and a simple “hey you got your phone on you?” gives us both some piece of mind. She knows if she’s not back in some remotely realistic timeframe and doesn’t pick up her phone there’s someone that will come find her, I don’t have to just sit at home and try and decide if it’s been long enough to file a missing person report or if she’s just run into a friend at the park and is too engrossed to notice her phone in the stroller. And none of this requires any planning or communication. Also had previously shared my location with a good friend and business partner because when we were both travelling separately to meet with clients it made it a lot easier to coordinate, if you arrived early to be able to (accurately) say “oh he’s 5 minutes out” or see they were stuck in traffic and shortcut the awkwardness and just have the person who wasn’t driving be able to call and say you’d both be late instead of walking in and making awkward small talk forever, etc. I’m not going to share my location generally, but sharing selectively can be extremely convenient.
- watwut 6y ago
  You people are really honestly timing dinner for exact time partner walks into the door? In situation where partner is going home at irregular times? I cant imagine doing that and cant imaging expecting that. > And just from a general safety perspective—wife and baby go for a mid-day walk and a simple “hey you got your phone on you?” gives us both some piece of mind. She knows if she’s not back in some remotely realistic timeframe and doesn’t pick up her phone there’s someone that will come find her I took huge amount of mid-day walks with kids and playground trips with kids and never ever needed someone to go find me. I did not needed husband to check how long I am away or anything like that. What exactly is "realistic timeframe" for walk with kid? For me, it could take anything between 20minutes and 4hours depending on weather, kids mood or my mood. But I did not needed husband to rescue me from dangers of local playground or park, like not once. I am not outlier, I do not know a single woman with baby in real life who would need that level or control in order to have peaceful mind. All these "realistic examples" make me wonder whether people did not normalized huge amount anxiety for themselves. Or they are made up.
magicalhippo 6y ago
I bike alone in the woods, and once beyond the initial few km it's quite unusual to see anyone else until I come back to the edge of the forest. It should be said I do prefer these less traveled sections. Anyway, if I have an bad accident[1], I might not be able to operate the phone. Either the phone could get damaged or I'm passed out, hurt or similar. Sharing the location in real-time with my gf, Google and possibly various governments seems preferable to lying hurt alone deep in the woods without anyone having a clue where I am. [1]: Friend of a friend had a front wheel puncture in a turn at the bottom of a hill, causing him to crash into some rocks. By sheer luck someone found him. He was passed out. The crash crushed his jaw, and he sustained severe brain damage. It's years since and he's still not recovered 100%.
vorpalhex 6y ago
My wife can't message me (safely) in the middle of driving home so I know to start heating up dinner. Likewise she can't let me know when traffic gets snarled and she's going to be an hour late.
- artificial 6y ago
  Does the phone support a voice activated digital assistant where you can speak to control the phone? "Hey Siri, message $ name I'm stuck in traffic, my ETA is $x."
  - vorpalhex 6y ago
    We don't use voice assistants for privacy reasons. I'm OK with the tradeoff of my location being public because it's just not interesting (I alternate between work, home and the gym), but it's very important to me to not potentially have my verbal conversations leaked or recorded. That's my tradeoff matrix, yours may be different.
jefftk 6y ago
Often I'll take the kids out for a walk, and my wife may or may not want to join us depending on where we are. Because she can easily look up my location, she can make that decision without needing to talk to me.
michaelbrooks 6y ago
My wife is a pet sitter and pet sitting can actually be quite dangerous. She once got bit by a dog and called me to come and help. She was in too much shock to be able to explain where she was, and I'm absolutely terrible with directions so I was unable to locate her. Thankfully, she managed to calm down and resolve the situation as it was only a small bite, but if the situation was worse and I would have been too late to find her. We thought that we can't let this situation happen again, so we now share each other's location just in case anything like that happens again. It's also great knowing how far away she is so I can start dinner and have it ready for when she steps in the door.