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Chris Lattner: The Future of Computing and Programming Languages [audio]

247 points by binarynate 6y ago

st1x7 6y ago
Every time I run across an episode of this podcast I need to weigh in my interest in a great guest versus having to listen to Lex's monotone voice and meaning-of-life type questions. The disparity is amazing - the list of guests is easily the best out of any podcast that has guests that I've ever come across; and the delivery of the host is just about the worst I've come across too. I guess I'll listen to this one.
- liquid153 6y ago
  Yeah he’s not a very good interviewer
  - 2wrist 6y ago
    I don't mind him, it feels like he is figuring things out still but I like that at times it can turn in to what feels like a quiet conversation between friends. Which can be illuminating and heart warming. Quite unexpected for a podcast like this.
  - jcims 6y ago
    I've watched from the beginning, he's getting better and it's clear to me anyway that he's trying. I think it's just a difficult skill to acquire if it's not something that is naturally in your wheelhouse. I listen because I enjoy the guests he's able to land and what seems to be an authentic interest in how they think and approach the world. It would be great if there were more podcasters having these conversations, but as far as I can tell there aren't. So the question is if the world's better off with or without these interviews as-is. To me the answer is clearly the former.
- versteegen 6y ago
  I've never felt that Lex's interviewing was so poor that it was a reason not to listen to one of his interviews. He still gets interesting people to talk about interesting things. Yes, amazing guest list, I do wonder how it took off like that. Edit: in contrast, Rob Reid's After On podcast has somewhat similar guests (not an all-stars list, no AI folks except Stuart Russell & Rodney Brooks), but he's my favourite interviewer. The amount of research he does before each interview is insane, to the point he already knows what the guest will say and what are the most interesting items to talk about. But he still lets the guest tell the story themselves.
  - madbkarim 6y ago
    That can be said the same with Guy Raz. I highly recommend everyone to give How I Built This a listen.
    - mandeepj 6y ago
      Second that. He's great. His new book is also highly recommended. I listened to it via audible
    - WoodenChair 6y ago
      I’m a fan of the show for the guests but not the interviews, if that makes any sense. He asks questions that are too general. I never get a sense from the episodes of what it’s actually like to run the business. I never get an understanding of what are the important things in their industry. It’s too much “aw shucks” this hard personal thing happened and you overcame it. Which is fine on its own, but I want to learn about business on a business show.
  - crispyambulance 6y ago
    Lex is a good interviewer, he's thoughtful and goes into depth. I've enjoyed many of his interviews. It's like he's a more stoic version of Joe Rogan. Some of his guests, however, are a very bad choice. In particular I am thinking of Eric Weinstein who has been on TWICE. Weinstein is a master-class bullshtter, who opines on his theory of everything yet has NOTHING to show for it. He also manages to pull in politics, academia, culture, and the kitchen sink, all obfuscated by turgid rhetoric.
    - maroonblazer 6y ago
      On average I'd rate him a pretty good interviewer however it seems like the quality has declined recently. E.g., his interview with Michael Malice a few weeks ago, where he (Lex) confessed to pulling an all-nighter before the interview, and so wasn't on his game. It showed. Hopefully the lesson he took from that experience is he shouldn't pull all-nighters before an interview. As the commenter above said, lots of 'meaning of life' questions that just aren't that interesting.
- dan00 6y ago
  > The disparity is amazing - the list of guests is easily the best out of any podcast that has guests that I've ever come across; and the delivery of the host is just about the worst I've come across too. If the guests would feel in the same way, then they wouldn’t be talking with Lex. So it's most likely an issue you have. I personally don't mind Lex at all and really like his style, especially his "simple" questions, because how great minds answer these "simple" questions can be quite interesting.
  - iguy 6y ago
    > If the guests would feel in the same way, then they wouldn’t be talking with Lex. I am often reminded of this anecdote: "Von Neumann would carry on a conversation with my 3-year-old son, and the two of them would talk as equals, and I sometimes wondered if he used the same principle when he talked to the rest of us." (Teller) > how great minds answer these "simple" questions can be quite interesting Yes for sure. But rather than directly ask the naive question which we simple listeners want to ask, I want a smart interviewer to give us some quick signposts about schools of thought on this and where the interviewee probably comes from given what they've said in the past. Then you can get a deeper answer. Even, perhaps especially, when they disagree with the way in which the interviewer has framed the question.
    - dan00 6y ago
      > But rather than directly ask the naive question which we simple listeners want to ask, I want a smart interviewer to give us some quick signposts about schools of thought on this and where the interviewee probably comes from given what they've said in the past. Then you can get a deeper answer. Even, perhaps especially, when they disagree with the way in which the interviewer has framed the question. If you don't like Lex's style, well, then don't listen to him. A lot of people seem to like and enjoy him. Asking someone to change to better fit your own expectations, honestly, seems quite a bit to ask, and at the end might not work that well, if it doesn't fit himself. Sure, you can critique whatever you want, but Lex doesn't really has to listen and also shouldn't, if he has that many listeners by just doing his thing.
- CodeGlitch 6y ago
  > and the delivery of the host is just about the worst I've come across too. I like Lex's style - the guests always deliver on interesting conversations, which is the point of the podcast. Lex is playing a role that I think facilitates this.
- deathlessgod 6y ago
  Thank you for saying this! Good to know that I'm not alone.
- fnord123 6y ago
  I get this with Kara Swisher's Recode. Great guests but she talks over them and interrupts them to tell anecdotes about herself.
- hansjorg 6y ago
  His list of guests is amazing and he sometimes has interesting lines of inquiry, but too often he very clearly has his own axe to grind which can get quite annoying. The endless "I am so very humble" spiel also gets tiresome, especially when punctuated by claims like "all journalists are trash (except those with a unique scientific curiosity, like me, of course)".
- janvdberg 6y ago
  Maybe listen at 1.5x speed?
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  Different culture / expectations. Most people evidently like him and almost all of his interlocutors reportedly enjoy it.
- auggierose 6y ago
  After 3 minutes of commercials and this voice I had to switch off. Too bad, I am sure CL had interesting stuff to say.
  - adwn 6y ago
    This is not a radio broadcast, you can skip ahead to the interesting stuff (there's an outline with timestamps lower on the linked webpage). You can even download the episode and listen to it in your favorite player.
    - auggierose 6y ago
      Yup, I realised that as well :-) By then I was too tired of this voice.
      - christmm 6y ago
        ever considered it is you, who you are tired with?
        auggierose 6y ago
        Nope. But maybe it was just the diabetic coma I was slipping into after my morning Nutella bagel. But this voice certainly didn't help.
- petercooper 6y ago
  As someone who occasionally interviews people, what are you really looking for? That is, what could Lex do better in your opinion?
  - iguy 6y ago
    I feel the same way at OP, amazing guests, but can't he push them a bit? What I'd like is more like what Tyler Cowen does, on non-tech subjects [1]. He gives the impression of having read all their books (and their opponents') not just having skimmed Wikipedia over breakfast. He keeps it moving, and often gets people a little bit off-balance, not aggressively, but enough to make people think afresh and not just repeat what they always say. Besides people's work, he'll ask them serious questions about (say) their known interest in some kinds or Jazz, or unrelated things about characters they would have run into at MIT in the 70s, or about the Russian education system. (I presume he has people helping him prepare, but maybe he's just like this all the time.) [1] https://conversationswithtyler.com/ https://conversationswithtyler.com/
    - gen220 6y ago
      Tyler is an exceptionally good interviewer, in a way you can only get by exceptional preparation. We’re lucky to have him. I haven’t heard a better interviewer since Charlie Rose (who had a team working for him, of course). Does anyone know of similar interviewers in this vein? Long form and exceptionally-prepared?
      - st1x7 6y ago
        > I haven’t heard a better interviewer since Charlie Rose Really? Rose is a serial interrupter. Might as well have Gary Vee interview people if you think Charlie Rose is any good.
        gen220 6y ago
        Yeah, they obviously have different interview styles, but a lot of the difference can be explained by the mediums, and their respective backgrounds. Personally I appreciate them both, but I can respect that you wouldn't find his style enjoyable. However, I'll defend Rose, in that he always picked interesting guests, and did good prep work. It's true that he steered the conversation in the direction he wanted it to go. But, of course, he had 60 minutes, and was recording for a broad television audience. The constraints were/are very different from Tyler's, personality differences notwithstanding. If you listen to the interviews where he gets to break out of the normal 60 minute boundaries, I think you'll find his style shifts with the medium. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOUzTd-Ge_g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOUzTd-Ge_g I've never heard of Gary Vee. However, based on a cursory search, I don't think a hyperbolic comparison helps your argument! :)
- gigatexal 6y ago
  It’s unfortunate that this is your take. I find his questions to be out of sincere wonder. He’s finding himself in life and the podcast is a journey we are joining him on as he finds out. I find his podcast amazing and this one especially great given how cool Chris Lattner is. And if it means anything it seems Chris and Lex are legit friends.
  - jcims 6y ago
    Same. It's my favorite podcast right now, I enjoy Lex's demeanor and line of questioning. I think it really helps understand the mental model with which these folks approach life. I think it's a good example of 'you can't please everybody'. For my part I hope he stays the course.
- abledon 6y ago
  you don't like thinking about the meaning of life?
  - rcgorton 6y ago
    Well, Mr. Creosote is annoying
- zarkov99 6y ago
  I keep reading this complaint and I do not understand it at all. For me Lex's delivery is refreshing. He is sincere, naive, full of wonder and never interjects himself as a subject. His obvious decency is for sure part of the reason he can get such wonderful guests. I hope he changes very little about his delivery.
- mark_l_watson 6y ago
  We can agree to disagree. To me, Lex is the “whole human” in the sense that he lets his humanity hang out there while talking with very interesting people. I have mostly worked in the field of AI (practical projects, not much research) since 1982. I feel strongly that AI systems that work with us, augmenting what makes us human and unique, is great. AI systems that aim to forcing human behavior into tight and strict protocols are simply bad. AI helping exploitive surveillance capitalism systems is bad. The human and basic humanity comes first.
- melling 6y ago
  I’ve done a couple of his surveys and mentioned that I think those questions are a waste of time. Donald Knuth handled it well. Do we live in a simulation? Hanging out debating unanswerable questions all the time has zero value.
  - cma 6y ago
    Not to be a romantic, but what do you think of neuralink (asked to someone in unrelated field to fulfill weird Musk quota the podcast seems to have)?
    - typon 6y ago
      I don't understand the obsession with Elon Musk some seemingly smart individuals seem to have. Seems like such a waste of time.
      - cma 6y ago
        It could be in this case a kind of arranged deal. Lex made a controversial paper about Tesla driver monitoring not being needed (based on users selected from an unbiased pool of... Tesla online fan clubs), flattering to Tesla's position, and promoted it before getting peer review. A few weeks later he had Musk on the podcast and got onto the Joe Rogan podcast and brought into a kind of mutual-shilling podcast circle. https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27359/mit-study-showing-high-functional-vigilance-among-autopilot-users-comes-with-massive-caveats https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27359/mit-study-showing-high-f...
      - Paradigma11 6y ago
        Starship, it's all about starship. If he succeeds with it humanity as a species can expanse beyond this gravity well in a few decades. Not sure what this fixation on mars is about, tough.
  - jcims 6y ago
    I've done the same and tell him I enjoy them. I think it's informative how the people he interviews frame the question (or not) and approach the answer. They are at a predictable spot in the podcast (the end), so it's pretty easy to just stop listening when he brings them up.
- abeppu 6y ago
  I think there's an unfortunate convergence of format and questioning. He asks a lot of the same questions of almost every guest. "Are we living in a simulation? What is consciousness? Etc." This feels like a waste of these guests if it's unrelated to their area of interest. In general, it smacks of lack of preparation. But perhaps this creates the opportunity for someone to make a series of supercuts, where Lex doesn't need to appear, but we get the appearance of a series of luminaries discussing a recurring question, and the differences and similarities among responses can be more apparent. A virtual panel, smeared across time.
  - 7373737373 6y ago
    There's a Canadian interviewer named "Nardwuar the Human Serviette" who mainly does interviews with rappers/musicians. Before each interview, he conducts the most in-depth research on them that anyone has ever conducted, mentioning people, places, early inspirations from their childhood and musical career, things that only a handful of people, the rappers' parents or only themselves could know - which often astounds, confuses or even frightens them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZP8OwCdO1E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZP8OwCdO1E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RKbSi87J5Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RKbSi87J5Q I agree with the previous comments, Lex' guests are really great, maybe the above can serve as inspiration :)
    - boulos 6y ago
      Tyler Cowen (from Conversations with Tyler) does a variant of this, but a bit less creepy than that sounds :).
      - AlchemistCamp 6y ago
        I love Tyler Cowen's podcast.
- raptortech 6y ago
  Totally agreed. It's so frustrating to me that out of the thousands of brilliant interviewers out there, we got this guy somehow bubbling up to the top. Maybe he brings the conversation down to the masses? His "philosophical" questions are often so bad that they don't even parse for his interviewees!!!
  - tachyonbeam 6y ago
    I think it's more that he puts in the work (doing and promoting the podcast) and he manages to get great guests.
    - ayewo 6y ago
      It doesn’t hurt that his father is a highly respected plasma scientist—a small but not insignificant factor in his ability to land great guests. https://drexel.edu/engineering/news-events/news/archive/2019/January/alexander-fridman-earns-plasma-fields-highest-honor/ https://drexel.edu/engineering/news-events/news/archive/2019...
      - kaesar14 6y ago
        This is not why he gets these guests. Lex is very famous in his own right. His episodes on Joe Rogan's podcast are some of the most popular he's put out. He's a well respected researcher in his own right. Chris Lattner did not go on this podcast because Lex's dad is a physicist.
        jcims 6y ago
        I think his affiliation with MIT probably helped to start with, but you still have to shoot your shot. He interviewed three billionaires before episode 20 (none of which would give a shit about plasma physics btw, lol).
        kaesar14 6y ago
        Kyle Vogt and Elon Musk are explainable with MIT, being a researcher heavily involved with self driving. Schmidt, yeah dunno how he got him so early on. He seems pretty well connected in technology in general to be honest. Still has nothing to do with his dad.
- BenGosub 6y ago
  I have also unsubscribed because of Lex's monotone voice.
- rezeroed 6y ago
  I just refuse to listen to a three hour podcast. I have a one hour limit, and even then I have my finger on the skip button. I also usually listen at between 1.5x and 2x, never slower than 1.2x because they sound stoned at 1x. I've wondered if they deliberately slow them down a bit. Life is short, and there are many podcasts.
- PascLeRasc 6y ago
  I feel the same with with Sam Harris's podcasts. He always has super interesting guests on but I feel like he's barely putting in effort to even speak, almost like vocal fry, and somehow ends up complaining about social media in every interview.
- scumcity 6y ago
  Well if you are such a badass just listen to it in 2x speed or faster like the rest of us.
- deleted 6y ago
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- pierrefermat1 6y ago
  Gotta be hush hush with these comments, I think most long term listeners who have a science background will agree with you here, but before you know it you'll be banned by him
- Falcotech 6y ago
  Every time a run across an episode of this podcast I am inclined to press play, often when I've never even heard of the guest. Yes his voice is very monotone but I find it calming. He challenges his guests with philosophical questions while most interviewers stick to the subject material. He adds just enough humor to lighten the mood, but not too much to derail the conversation. He takes that extra second before speaking to make sure his response or next question is genuine. Lex, since you disagree with Joe Rogan's advice on not reading the comments, I know there's a slight possibility that you read this. I want to thank you for the fulfilling content, congratulate you on your success as a podcast host, and tell you that you are an inspirational person.
- UncleOxidant 6y ago
  I have the same issues with Fridman. I wonder how he's able to get these A-list guests? Is it just that he's the only one in the space doing these kinds of podcasts? I heard his interview with Jim Keller (chip designer extraordinaire) and Fridman did ask some good questions, but there were also some very cringey questions and others that seemed to indicate he was out of his depth (at least with the topic at hand). In spite of it, Keller had a lot of good things to say. So I'll probably listen to this Lattner interview and cringe at points and find what Chris has to say interesting in spite of it.
  - cblconfederate 6y ago
    I m trying to figure out what is it that throws people off? There are successful podcasters that are far more clueless than Lex (e.g. Joe rogan) and he s not interrupting much. In general the interviewee is usually the center of attention, and they seem to be actually going pretty deep on presenting their theses or personal ideas (e.g. sebastian thrun, joscha bach, george hotz, lisa feldman, james gosling). As for a few cringey questions in 1.5 hours, it's like a restful interlude, after all talking can become exhausting. Do people think the interviewees are offended by Lex's (few) obsessions (Musk,dostoyevsky,his soviet past)? It certainly doesnt seem so judging from their reactions during the interview and after (in twitter etc). Being in MIT probably gave him easy access to the interesting people that started off his podcast, but beyond that i think his affable , empathetic and easy style is rather attractive, so people don't say no to him, and many have returned back.
    - UncleOxidant 6y ago
      I think blinkingled below in the comments put it really well: "yes it is different and it can feel like stoned teenager with disorganized thoughts asking questions that form mid sentence"
      - deleted 6y ago
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  - ffggvv 6y ago
- tsegratis 6y ago
  Tip no.1 for getting great guests Not denigrating people in public... Many great things about Lex. One I like most is his quickness to ask basic questions. Chris Lattner mentions it as a great trait of his own -- sincerely trying to learn, rather than impress you So well done Lex
alex_reg 6y ago
If you prefer videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWTvXbQHwWs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWTvXbQHwWs Also has timestamps for specific topics.
- mikro2nd 6y ago
  Personally I'd prefer text. I can't skim/speedread audio or video.
- jagged-chisel 6y ago
  It's easier to understand Lex's demeanor when watching him. Not knowing who he is, the audio sounds like he's tuned out, bored, distracted... Watching him, you can see that's not the case at all. Just having facial expressions, and knowing that the guests are right across from him, make the whole exchange much more understandable.
KarimDaghari 6y ago
Thanks OP for sharing this podcast/episode! For me it was very informative (and dare I say, pretty cool). I'm wondering what other podcasts I'm missing out on!
CoffeePython 6y ago
I love how Lex's podcast has really taken off lately. His conversations very closely match to my interests. Also in general, long form podcast conversations are such great entertainment. I've learned a ton from his podcast conversations. Excited to spend the morning listening to this one. Lattner seems like an extremely fascinating guy
formerly_proven 6y ago
See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24823764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24823764
karmicthreat 6y ago
Lex is great at bringing the conversation down to a more accessible level for people. He isn't doing a presentation at a technical conference. It's a combination of entertainment and insight into how the interviewee thinks. In a way someone that is technical, but not necessarily a super engineer, can resonate with. He speaking style can throw people off. I'm pretty sure I have heard this style from other eastern Euro and Russian people. It doesn't bother me, but I can see why it can be grating to some people.
- deleted 6y ago
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pellucide 6y ago
Lex's podcasts have this unique style. The probing of the philosophical angle from the expert guests of various disciplines brings out very interesting points of views.
tomerbd 6y ago
Sometimes when the audio quality is too good too podcasti it feels non natural.
jb1991 6y ago
As someone currently learning Swift, which I am finding to be one of the most excellent language designs I've encountered, this chat is pretty interesting.
blinkingled 6y ago
Lot of people complaining about the interviewer's skill - yes it is different and it can feel like stoned teenager with disorganized thoughts asking questions that form mid sentence :) - but if you give it some space, let it be, it's not bad at all. I actually like the slower pace and very down and dirty style of questioning - as opposed to the fast, high level, polished way that becomes inaccessible some times.
- sod 6y ago
  I hope Lex stays this way. The only interview podcast I know of where most of the focus is on the guest. The way he talks, listens and follow up on what the guest says lets me fully engage in the thoughts of the interviewee.
  - drannex 6y ago
    If you are interested in something similar that focuses more on engineering and science and goes far more in depth then I highly suggest Omega Tau (http://omegataupodcast.net/category/podcast-en/ http://omegataupodcast.net/category/podcast-en/) by far the best podcast I have ever found.
    - jcims 6y ago
      Just scanned the topics, this looks great to me, thanks for sharing it.
kobe_bryant 6y ago
Lex is only eating meat? like in addition to supplements or is he just forgoing fiber
melling 6y ago
Early in the interview Lattner does a great job of selling Swift. Value types (with copy on write), progressive disclosure, ... I think Swift is a great language but the lack of cross platform development is holding it back.
- jb1991 6y ago
  I agree, I'm coming around to the fact that Swift is probably the best-designed language in widespread use right now. I've used many and tried many more, and I don't know if it is the original Rust team's involvement with its evolution or just the brilliance of its creator but Swift has really hit a sweet spot in all the many axes of language design. It is just so... productive. Things feel so much easier in Swift, yet it is more flexible than most other popular languages.
  - higerordermap 6y ago
    There's no information in this entire comment. Reminds me of clojure people.
    - jb1991 6y ago
      Your vague insult aside, what kind of information are you looking for? The technical summaries of the language are widely available elsewhere, were you expecting those in a comment here? Note that the linked podcast goes into those details directly, so I’m partly assuming readers here are aware of the content before reading the comments.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  I don't know Swift at all. But I know what progressive disclosure is. Could you explain a bit what you mean for a programming language to have progressive disclosure, and how specifically Swift does that?
  - oflannabhra 6y ago
    Chris defines it in the interview, I think, but I think of it as: Swift is a complex language with lots of features, but if you are trying to do something simple, you do not need to engage with the more complex features of the language. As you learn or need to solve more complex problems, those complex features are waiting for you. His example is a Hello World program in Swift vs something like C++.
ok123456 6y ago
Clicked. Saw it was Lex Fridman. Closed.
- deleted 6y ago
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DSingularity 6y ago
Why are people so negative? I get that it is possible for people to dislike his style or find his voice triggering. What I don’t get is what those people get out of pointing this out. Especially when others have already done this.
- jcims 6y ago
  I'd love to hear an actual study on this kind of phenomenon. For some reason he really triggers people on two primary fronts, his 'monotone' manner of speaking, and the simplistic and philosophical questions he adds to every conversation. There's a third but relatively small cohort that seem to be experiencing some kind of transitive distrust from his previous encounters with Joe Rogan and/or Elon Musk. I get not liking his or any other podcast. I don't get the need to belittle the dude or enter into some weird conspirational thinking about his motivations.
- harryVic 6y ago
  People who have nothing going on their lives like to be so angry on the internet. Lex is a 34 year old who teaches at MIT and gets to live a popular life earning money interviewing celebrities and scientists. I love listening to him and his style of working.
- chubot 6y ago
  Also I recommend just giving it a chance. To be honest, I disilked his first podcasts. I turned them off even though they had guests I really liked (Guido van Rossum, etc.) But now I watch his podcast all the time, and I've gotten a lot out of it. I agree with others in that he doesn't try to make himself the focus of the conversation, and that's a good quality in an interviewer. He makes his subjects comfortable enough to talk freely, to say things I haven't heard elsewhere over 1-2 hours, and that is an incredible and valuable skill.
- zadaSahib 6y ago
  Yes, it is quite sad. I didn't know a voice could be so triggering to people until I went on this thread. It's really not something I place much importance on, so I was surprised to see this. Lex, if you're reading this by any chance, please keep up the great work. There are a lot more people who love what you're doing than those who don't! :)
jlokier 6y ago
(@dang) Other discussion about the same episode here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24823764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24823764
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  That discussion only has complaints about the interviewing style. This discussion has a few comments about the substance. Not many, but more than none.
  - jlokier 6y ago
    That's a little unfair, some of the comments there are thoughtful praise, just like this discussion.
    - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
      Some thoughtful praise of the interview style, yes. But zero discussion of the actual content of the interview.
      - jlokier 6y ago
        Good point, I missed that in your first comment because it juxtaposed a point about it being all complaints with a point about substance vs style.
justicezyx 6y ago
The podcast was targeted at casual audiences, who generally are normal engineers in the software trade, or even ones outside of software. The content is fairly shallow. I am looking for content that actually can describe practitioner problems, not just superficially on general conceptual problems. One that delivered by John Carmark would be one such example. But John probably is on another level than Chris here, and is very rare.
- higerordermap 6y ago
  I don't get why this is downvoted.
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bekantan 6y ago
I love his podcast. Episode with Joscha Bach is the best one so far - Joscha is an excellent fit for type of questions Lex tends to ask
- WanderPanda 6y ago
  Thanks, never heard that name but I will definitely listen to the episode!
  - agambrahma 6y ago
    In case it helps: https://lexfridman.com/joscha-bach/ https://lexfridman.com/joscha-bach/
  - jcims 6y ago
    You need to warm up the brain for that one. I'm sure it's different if you spend a lot of time thinking about the topics they discussed, but I don't, and it felt like my brain was getting tazed. The pace at which he crystalizes vague notions into the framework of his worldview is impressive. I don't think I ever clicked 'skip backwards 15 seconds' more in a podcast that already had my full attention.
WanderPanda 6y ago
I would never have guessed Lex would get so much hate here. No one forces you to listen to him and his guests. And it is probably not despite his interviewing style but because of it that so many excellent people talk to him. Can we please discuss the content? I have one hour to go and Julia has not been mentioned, though it seems to check many of the boxes they are talking about (high quality libraries that feel like they are part of the language, compiling natively to accelerators...). I think it is one big competitor (in the field of HPC / scientific computing) to „Swift world domination“
- zapnuk 6y ago
  Yes, I don't remember Julia being mentioned. Also, Elixir/Erlang isn't mentioned when they talked about actor based concurrency. Neither is Rust which has some simultaneity with swift. They also didn't really talk about problems with swift (adoption for example). Overall this talk is very surface level in my opinion, which is why I think some critique on Lex is valid. He had the opportunity to dive in deeper on some topics - but didn't really do so. It just could have been better.
  - WanderPanda 6y ago
    I personally found almost all points they were talking about interesting. Sure, I also often get the feeling that they should dive deeper on a particular topic, or that a certain point raises more questions than it answers but then again we are clocking in at almost 3h already and I am not sure how far the term „long form content“ can (or should) be stretched
    - justicezyx 6y ago
      They are both superficial and interesting. My critic has always been that Lex is superficial, which is understandable, because he is targeting casual audiences. Like some other comments suggest, he is squandering the opportunity in a certain degree. All his question can be answered by someone who is not Chris Lattner, and the content would not be too different from what's we see right now. I personally place high regards on Chris Lattner's technical prowess in the compiler and machine-program interfacing space. That's something that he can deliver content that no other I am aware of can do better. Yet, all I have been seeing is something that have been repeated everywhere else, and I am too tired of this blandness. On the contrary, take a look https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZHmQk67mSJgfCCTn7xBfew https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZHmQk67mSJgfCCTn7xBfew, the producer does not appeal to casual viewers. It's often a deep disect of technical papers inside out. That's what I am looking for.
twsted 6y ago
Chris is a very nice guy and a super smart engineer. Why all these comments about Lex and his interviewing style and almost nothing about the technological aspects, like MLIR, LLVM or RISC-V?
binarynate 6y ago
I'm surprised by the negativity on this thread, so I just want to mention that I think this is an awesome podcast, and I get a lot of value and entertainment out of it. For this episode in particular, I thought the conversation about RISC-V and Swift were both really interesting. For people that feel the need to continually troll Lex for his voice and interviewing style, you are free to create your own podcast if you think you can do a better job.
chrislattner 6y ago
Really sad to see how much of the commentary here is meta-commentary about Lex and not about the content. Several people asked, so here's the reason I chose to go on his show: it's because I love his work (frequent listener) and he's a great person. He asks good questions suitable to a wide audience and he's fun to talk to. If you don't like his show or style, then you don't have to listen to it. :-) -Chris
- deleted 6y ago
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- kgarten 6y ago
  Big fan of your work. Yet, some more commentary on the content of the podcast: You are talking about the "Future of Computing" and you are just discussing llvm, c, c++, java, python and swift? No Haskell, Erlang, Julia, Go ... A bit disappointing regarding the title of the podcast, don't you think so?
  - chrislattner 6y ago
    It's impossible to cover "all the things" in one podcast. However, I'm happy to answer specific questions if you have a specific interest.
    - kgarten 6y ago
      True, true. Yet, I feel the podcast discusses more the current state, not the future in terms of programming/computing. When I listened, I was wondering what is a rather obscure language you like and enjoy and why. (I still like hacking OpenDylan from time to time. For me, Swift seems great for user interfaces and for some os applications (command line etc.). Especially Apple's SwiftUI seem to take the best of d3.js and other libraries. Swift seems perfect and very flexible for that. Machine Learning and Signal Processing will still be dominated by Python, just because of the libraries. I'm old school and program a lot of matlab ... Thought I would get more background on your influences and your programming culture.
ricklamers 6y ago
I just wanted to share my two cents about Lex as a podcast interviewer, given the flak he's getting from some people in this thread. I think he's fantastic. His calm style is really great for both the interviewee and the listener in my opinion. My knee jerk reaction to Lex was to dislike him, but if you allow yourself to dig a little deeper I think you'll find he's a hard working, intelligent and humble guy that's following his passion.

247 points by binarynate 6y ago

Every time I run across an episode of this podcast I need to weigh in my interest in a great guest versus having to listen to Lex's monotone voice and meaning-of-life type questions. The disparity is amazing - the list of guests is easily the best out of any podcast that has guests that I've ever come across; and the delivery of the host is just about the worst I've come across too. I guess I'll listen to this one.

liquid153 6y ago
Yeah he’s not a very good interviewer
- 2wrist 6y ago
  I don't mind him, it feels like he is figuring things out still but I like that at times it can turn in to what feels like a quiet conversation between friends. Which can be illuminating and heart warming. Quite unexpected for a podcast like this.
- jcims 6y ago
  I've watched from the beginning, he's getting better and it's clear to me anyway that he's trying. I think it's just a difficult skill to acquire if it's not something that is naturally in your wheelhouse. I listen because I enjoy the guests he's able to land and what seems to be an authentic interest in how they think and approach the world. It would be great if there were more podcasters having these conversations, but as far as I can tell there aren't. So the question is if the world's better off with or without these interviews as-is. To me the answer is clearly the former.
versteegen 6y ago
I've never felt that Lex's interviewing was so poor that it was a reason not to listen to one of his interviews. He still gets interesting people to talk about interesting things. Yes, amazing guest list, I do wonder how it took off like that. Edit: in contrast, Rob Reid's After On podcast has somewhat similar guests (not an all-stars list, no AI folks except Stuart Russell & Rodney Brooks), but he's my favourite interviewer. The amount of research he does before each interview is insane, to the point he already knows what the guest will say and what are the most interesting items to talk about. But he still lets the guest tell the story themselves.
- madbkarim 6y ago
  That can be said the same with Guy Raz. I highly recommend everyone to give How I Built This a listen.
  - mandeepj 6y ago
    Second that. He's great. His new book is also highly recommended. I listened to it via audible
  - WoodenChair 6y ago
    I’m a fan of the show for the guests but not the interviews, if that makes any sense. He asks questions that are too general. I never get a sense from the episodes of what it’s actually like to run the business. I never get an understanding of what are the important things in their industry. It’s too much “aw shucks” this hard personal thing happened and you overcame it. Which is fine on its own, but I want to learn about business on a business show.
- crispyambulance 6y ago
  Lex is a good interviewer, he's thoughtful and goes into depth. I've enjoyed many of his interviews. It's like he's a more stoic version of Joe Rogan. Some of his guests, however, are a very bad choice. In particular I am thinking of Eric Weinstein who has been on TWICE. Weinstein is a master-class bullshtter, who opines on his theory of everything yet has NOTHING to show for it. He also manages to pull in politics, academia, culture, and the kitchen sink, all obfuscated by turgid rhetoric.
  - maroonblazer 6y ago
    On average I'd rate him a pretty good interviewer however it seems like the quality has declined recently. E.g., his interview with Michael Malice a few weeks ago, where he (Lex) confessed to pulling an all-nighter before the interview, and so wasn't on his game. It showed. Hopefully the lesson he took from that experience is he shouldn't pull all-nighters before an interview. As the commenter above said, lots of 'meaning of life' questions that just aren't that interesting.
dan00 6y ago
> The disparity is amazing - the list of guests is easily the best out of any podcast that has guests that I've ever come across; and the delivery of the host is just about the worst I've come across too. If the guests would feel in the same way, then they wouldn’t be talking with Lex. So it's most likely an issue you have. I personally don't mind Lex at all and really like his style, especially his "simple" questions, because how great minds answer these "simple" questions can be quite interesting.
- iguy 6y ago
  > If the guests would feel in the same way, then they wouldn’t be talking with Lex. I am often reminded of this anecdote: "Von Neumann would carry on a conversation with my 3-year-old son, and the two of them would talk as equals, and I sometimes wondered if he used the same principle when he talked to the rest of us." (Teller) > how great minds answer these "simple" questions can be quite interesting Yes for sure. But rather than directly ask the naive question which we simple listeners want to ask, I want a smart interviewer to give us some quick signposts about schools of thought on this and where the interviewee probably comes from given what they've said in the past. Then you can get a deeper answer. Even, perhaps especially, when they disagree with the way in which the interviewer has framed the question.
  - dan00 6y ago
    > But rather than directly ask the naive question which we simple listeners want to ask, I want a smart interviewer to give us some quick signposts about schools of thought on this and where the interviewee probably comes from given what they've said in the past. Then you can get a deeper answer. Even, perhaps especially, when they disagree with the way in which the interviewer has framed the question. If you don't like Lex's style, well, then don't listen to him. A lot of people seem to like and enjoy him. Asking someone to change to better fit your own expectations, honestly, seems quite a bit to ask, and at the end might not work that well, if it doesn't fit himself. Sure, you can critique whatever you want, but Lex doesn't really has to listen and also shouldn't, if he has that many listeners by just doing his thing.
CodeGlitch 6y ago
> and the delivery of the host is just about the worst I've come across too. I like Lex's style - the guests always deliver on interesting conversations, which is the point of the podcast. Lex is playing a role that I think facilitates this.
deathlessgod 6y ago
Thank you for saying this! Good to know that I'm not alone.
fnord123 6y ago
I get this with Kara Swisher's Recode. Great guests but she talks over them and interrupts them to tell anecdotes about herself.
hansjorg 6y ago
His list of guests is amazing and he sometimes has interesting lines of inquiry, but too often he very clearly has his own axe to grind which can get quite annoying. The endless "I am so very humble" spiel also gets tiresome, especially when punctuated by claims like "all journalists are trash (except those with a unique scientific curiosity, like me, of course)".
janvdberg 6y ago
Maybe listen at 1.5x speed?
cblconfederate 6y ago
Different culture / expectations. Most people evidently like him and almost all of his interlocutors reportedly enjoy it.
auggierose 6y ago
After 3 minutes of commercials and this voice I had to switch off. Too bad, I am sure CL had interesting stuff to say.
- adwn 6y ago
  This is not a radio broadcast, you can skip ahead to the interesting stuff (there's an outline with timestamps lower on the linked webpage). You can even download the episode and listen to it in your favorite player.
  - auggierose 6y ago
    Yup, I realised that as well :-) By then I was too tired of this voice.
    - christmm 6y ago
      ever considered it is you, who you are tired with?
      - auggierose 6y ago
        Nope. But maybe it was just the diabetic coma I was slipping into after my morning Nutella bagel. But this voice certainly didn't help.
petercooper 6y ago
As someone who occasionally interviews people, what are you really looking for? That is, what could Lex do better in your opinion?
- iguy 6y ago
  I feel the same way at OP, amazing guests, but can't he push them a bit? What I'd like is more like what Tyler Cowen does, on non-tech subjects [1]. He gives the impression of having read all their books (and their opponents') not just having skimmed Wikipedia over breakfast. He keeps it moving, and often gets people a little bit off-balance, not aggressively, but enough to make people think afresh and not just repeat what they always say. Besides people's work, he'll ask them serious questions about (say) their known interest in some kinds or Jazz, or unrelated things about characters they would have run into at MIT in the 70s, or about the Russian education system. (I presume he has people helping him prepare, but maybe he's just like this all the time.) [1] https://conversationswithtyler.com/ https://conversationswithtyler.com/
  - gen220 6y ago
    Tyler is an exceptionally good interviewer, in a way you can only get by exceptional preparation. We’re lucky to have him. I haven’t heard a better interviewer since Charlie Rose (who had a team working for him, of course). Does anyone know of similar interviewers in this vein? Long form and exceptionally-prepared?
    - st1x7 6y ago
      > I haven’t heard a better interviewer since Charlie Rose Really? Rose is a serial interrupter. Might as well have Gary Vee interview people if you think Charlie Rose is any good.
      - gen220 6y ago
        Yeah, they obviously have different interview styles, but a lot of the difference can be explained by the mediums, and their respective backgrounds. Personally I appreciate them both, but I can respect that you wouldn't find his style enjoyable. However, I'll defend Rose, in that he always picked interesting guests, and did good prep work. It's true that he steered the conversation in the direction he wanted it to go. But, of course, he had 60 minutes, and was recording for a broad television audience. The constraints were/are very different from Tyler's, personality differences notwithstanding. If you listen to the interviews where he gets to break out of the normal 60 minute boundaries, I think you'll find his style shifts with the medium. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOUzTd-Ge_g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOUzTd-Ge_g I've never heard of Gary Vee. However, based on a cursory search, I don't think a hyperbolic comparison helps your argument! :)
gigatexal 6y ago
It’s unfortunate that this is your take. I find his questions to be out of sincere wonder. He’s finding himself in life and the podcast is a journey we are joining him on as he finds out. I find his podcast amazing and this one especially great given how cool Chris Lattner is. And if it means anything it seems Chris and Lex are legit friends.
- jcims 6y ago
  Same. It's my favorite podcast right now, I enjoy Lex's demeanor and line of questioning. I think it really helps understand the mental model with which these folks approach life. I think it's a good example of 'you can't please everybody'. For my part I hope he stays the course.
abledon 6y ago
you don't like thinking about the meaning of life?
- rcgorton 6y ago
  Well, Mr. Creosote is annoying
zarkov99 6y ago
I keep reading this complaint and I do not understand it at all. For me Lex's delivery is refreshing. He is sincere, naive, full of wonder and never interjects himself as a subject. His obvious decency is for sure part of the reason he can get such wonderful guests. I hope he changes very little about his delivery.
mark_l_watson 6y ago
We can agree to disagree. To me, Lex is the “whole human” in the sense that he lets his humanity hang out there while talking with very interesting people. I have mostly worked in the field of AI (practical projects, not much research) since 1982. I feel strongly that AI systems that work with us, augmenting what makes us human and unique, is great. AI systems that aim to forcing human behavior into tight and strict protocols are simply bad. AI helping exploitive surveillance capitalism systems is bad. The human and basic humanity comes first.
melling 6y ago
I’ve done a couple of his surveys and mentioned that I think those questions are a waste of time. Donald Knuth handled it well. Do we live in a simulation? Hanging out debating unanswerable questions all the time has zero value.
- cma 6y ago
  Not to be a romantic, but what do you think of neuralink (asked to someone in unrelated field to fulfill weird Musk quota the podcast seems to have)?
  - typon 6y ago
    I don't understand the obsession with Elon Musk some seemingly smart individuals seem to have. Seems like such a waste of time.
    - cma 6y ago
      It could be in this case a kind of arranged deal. Lex made a controversial paper about Tesla driver monitoring not being needed (based on users selected from an unbiased pool of... Tesla online fan clubs), flattering to Tesla's position, and promoted it before getting peer review. A few weeks later he had Musk on the podcast and got onto the Joe Rogan podcast and brought into a kind of mutual-shilling podcast circle. https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27359/mit-study-showing-high-functional-vigilance-among-autopilot-users-comes-with-massive-caveats https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27359/mit-study-showing-high-f...
    - Paradigma11 6y ago
      Starship, it's all about starship. If he succeeds with it humanity as a species can expanse beyond this gravity well in a few decades. Not sure what this fixation on mars is about, tough.
- jcims 6y ago
  I've done the same and tell him I enjoy them. I think it's informative how the people he interviews frame the question (or not) and approach the answer. They are at a predictable spot in the podcast (the end), so it's pretty easy to just stop listening when he brings them up.
abeppu 6y ago
I think there's an unfortunate convergence of format and questioning. He asks a lot of the same questions of almost every guest. "Are we living in a simulation? What is consciousness? Etc." This feels like a waste of these guests if it's unrelated to their area of interest. In general, it smacks of lack of preparation. But perhaps this creates the opportunity for someone to make a series of supercuts, where Lex doesn't need to appear, but we get the appearance of a series of luminaries discussing a recurring question, and the differences and similarities among responses can be more apparent. A virtual panel, smeared across time.
- 7373737373 6y ago
  There's a Canadian interviewer named "Nardwuar the Human Serviette" who mainly does interviews with rappers/musicians. Before each interview, he conducts the most in-depth research on them that anyone has ever conducted, mentioning people, places, early inspirations from their childhood and musical career, things that only a handful of people, the rappers' parents or only themselves could know - which often astounds, confuses or even frightens them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZP8OwCdO1E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZP8OwCdO1E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RKbSi87J5Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RKbSi87J5Q I agree with the previous comments, Lex' guests are really great, maybe the above can serve as inspiration :)
  - boulos 6y ago
    Tyler Cowen (from Conversations with Tyler) does a variant of this, but a bit less creepy than that sounds :).
    - AlchemistCamp 6y ago
      I love Tyler Cowen's podcast.
raptortech 6y ago
Totally agreed. It's so frustrating to me that out of the thousands of brilliant interviewers out there, we got this guy somehow bubbling up to the top. Maybe he brings the conversation down to the masses? His "philosophical" questions are often so bad that they don't even parse for his interviewees!!!
- tachyonbeam 6y ago
  I think it's more that he puts in the work (doing and promoting the podcast) and he manages to get great guests.
  - ayewo 6y ago
    It doesn’t hurt that his father is a highly respected plasma scientist—a small but not insignificant factor in his ability to land great guests. https://drexel.edu/engineering/news-events/news/archive/2019/January/alexander-fridman-earns-plasma-fields-highest-honor/ https://drexel.edu/engineering/news-events/news/archive/2019...
    - kaesar14 6y ago
      This is not why he gets these guests. Lex is very famous in his own right. His episodes on Joe Rogan's podcast are some of the most popular he's put out. He's a well respected researcher in his own right. Chris Lattner did not go on this podcast because Lex's dad is a physicist.
      - jcims 6y ago
        I think his affiliation with MIT probably helped to start with, but you still have to shoot your shot. He interviewed three billionaires before episode 20 (none of which would give a shit about plasma physics btw, lol).
        kaesar14 6y ago
        Kyle Vogt and Elon Musk are explainable with MIT, being a researcher heavily involved with self driving. Schmidt, yeah dunno how he got him so early on. He seems pretty well connected in technology in general to be honest. Still has nothing to do with his dad.
BenGosub 6y ago
I have also unsubscribed because of Lex's monotone voice.
rezeroed 6y ago
I just refuse to listen to a three hour podcast. I have a one hour limit, and even then I have my finger on the skip button. I also usually listen at between 1.5x and 2x, never slower than 1.2x because they sound stoned at 1x. I've wondered if they deliberately slow them down a bit. Life is short, and there are many podcasts.
PascLeRasc 6y ago
I feel the same with with Sam Harris's podcasts. He always has super interesting guests on but I feel like he's barely putting in effort to even speak, almost like vocal fry, and somehow ends up complaining about social media in every interview.
scumcity 6y ago
Well if you are such a badass just listen to it in 2x speed or faster like the rest of us.
deleted 6y ago
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pierrefermat1 6y ago
Gotta be hush hush with these comments, I think most long term listeners who have a science background will agree with you here, but before you know it you'll be banned by him
Falcotech 6y ago
Every time a run across an episode of this podcast I am inclined to press play, often when I've never even heard of the guest. Yes his voice is very monotone but I find it calming. He challenges his guests with philosophical questions while most interviewers stick to the subject material. He adds just enough humor to lighten the mood, but not too much to derail the conversation. He takes that extra second before speaking to make sure his response or next question is genuine. Lex, since you disagree with Joe Rogan's advice on not reading the comments, I know there's a slight possibility that you read this. I want to thank you for the fulfilling content, congratulate you on your success as a podcast host, and tell you that you are an inspirational person.
UncleOxidant 6y ago
I have the same issues with Fridman. I wonder how he's able to get these A-list guests? Is it just that he's the only one in the space doing these kinds of podcasts? I heard his interview with Jim Keller (chip designer extraordinaire) and Fridman did ask some good questions, but there were also some very cringey questions and others that seemed to indicate he was out of his depth (at least with the topic at hand). In spite of it, Keller had a lot of good things to say. So I'll probably listen to this Lattner interview and cringe at points and find what Chris has to say interesting in spite of it.
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  I m trying to figure out what is it that throws people off? There are successful podcasters that are far more clueless than Lex (e.g. Joe rogan) and he s not interrupting much. In general the interviewee is usually the center of attention, and they seem to be actually going pretty deep on presenting their theses or personal ideas (e.g. sebastian thrun, joscha bach, george hotz, lisa feldman, james gosling). As for a few cringey questions in 1.5 hours, it's like a restful interlude, after all talking can become exhausting. Do people think the interviewees are offended by Lex's (few) obsessions (Musk,dostoyevsky,his soviet past)? It certainly doesnt seem so judging from their reactions during the interview and after (in twitter etc). Being in MIT probably gave him easy access to the interesting people that started off his podcast, but beyond that i think his affable , empathetic and easy style is rather attractive, so people don't say no to him, and many have returned back.
  - UncleOxidant 6y ago
    I think blinkingled below in the comments put it really well: "yes it is different and it can feel like stoned teenager with disorganized thoughts asking questions that form mid sentence"
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- ffggvv 6y ago
tsegratis 6y ago
Tip no.1 for getting great guests Not denigrating people in public... Many great things about Lex. One I like most is his quickness to ask basic questions. Chris Lattner mentions it as a great trait of his own -- sincerely trying to learn, rather than impress you So well done Lex

alex_reg 6y ago

If you prefer videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWTvXbQHwWs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWTvXbQHwWs Also has timestamps for specific topics.

mikro2nd 6y ago
Personally I'd prefer text. I can't skim/speedread audio or video.
jagged-chisel 6y ago
It's easier to understand Lex's demeanor when watching him. Not knowing who he is, the audio sounds like he's tuned out, bored, distracted... Watching him, you can see that's not the case at all. Just having facial expressions, and knowing that the guests are right across from him, make the whole exchange much more understandable.

KarimDaghari 6y ago

Thanks OP for sharing this podcast/episode! For me it was very informative (and dare I say, pretty cool). I'm wondering what other podcasts I'm missing out on!

CoffeePython 6y ago

I love how Lex's podcast has really taken off lately. His conversations very closely match to my interests. Also in general, long form podcast conversations are such great entertainment. I've learned a ton from his podcast conversations. Excited to spend the morning listening to this one. Lattner seems like an extremely fascinating guy

formerly_proven 6y ago

See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24823764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24823764

karmicthreat 6y ago

Lex is great at bringing the conversation down to a more accessible level for people. He isn't doing a presentation at a technical conference. It's a combination of entertainment and insight into how the interviewee thinks. In a way someone that is technical, but not necessarily a super engineer, can resonate with. He speaking style can throw people off. I'm pretty sure I have heard this style from other eastern Euro and Russian people. It doesn't bother me, but I can see why it can be grating to some people.

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pellucide 6y ago

Lex's podcasts have this unique style. The probing of the philosophical angle from the expert guests of various disciplines brings out very interesting points of views.

tomerbd 6y ago

Sometimes when the audio quality is too good too podcasti it feels non natural.

jb1991 6y ago

As someone currently learning Swift, which I am finding to be one of the most excellent language designs I've encountered, this chat is pretty interesting.

blinkingled 6y ago

Lot of people complaining about the interviewer's skill - yes it is different and it can feel like stoned teenager with disorganized thoughts asking questions that form mid sentence :) - but if you give it some space, let it be, it's not bad at all. I actually like the slower pace and very down and dirty style of questioning - as opposed to the fast, high level, polished way that becomes inaccessible some times.

sod 6y ago
I hope Lex stays this way. The only interview podcast I know of where most of the focus is on the guest. The way he talks, listens and follow up on what the guest says lets me fully engage in the thoughts of the interviewee.
- drannex 6y ago
  If you are interested in something similar that focuses more on engineering and science and goes far more in depth then I highly suggest Omega Tau (http://omegataupodcast.net/category/podcast-en/ http://omegataupodcast.net/category/podcast-en/) by far the best podcast I have ever found.
  - jcims 6y ago
    Just scanned the topics, this looks great to me, thanks for sharing it.

kobe_bryant 6y ago

Lex is only eating meat? like in addition to supplements or is he just forgoing fiber

melling 6y ago

Early in the interview Lattner does a great job of selling Swift. Value types (with copy on write), progressive disclosure, ... I think Swift is a great language but the lack of cross platform development is holding it back.

jb1991 6y ago
I agree, I'm coming around to the fact that Swift is probably the best-designed language in widespread use right now. I've used many and tried many more, and I don't know if it is the original Rust team's involvement with its evolution or just the brilliance of its creator but Swift has really hit a sweet spot in all the many axes of language design. It is just so... productive. Things feel so much easier in Swift, yet it is more flexible than most other popular languages.
- higerordermap 6y ago
  There's no information in this entire comment. Reminds me of clojure people.
  - jb1991 6y ago
    Your vague insult aside, what kind of information are you looking for? The technical summaries of the language are widely available elsewhere, were you expecting those in a comment here? Note that the linked podcast goes into those details directly, so I’m partly assuming readers here are aware of the content before reading the comments.
AnimalMuppet 6y ago
I don't know Swift at all. But I know what progressive disclosure is. Could you explain a bit what you mean for a programming language to have progressive disclosure, and how specifically Swift does that?
- oflannabhra 6y ago
  Chris defines it in the interview, I think, but I think of it as: Swift is a complex language with lots of features, but if you are trying to do something simple, you do not need to engage with the more complex features of the language. As you learn or need to solve more complex problems, those complex features are waiting for you. His example is a Hello World program in Swift vs something like C++.

ok123456 6y ago

Clicked. Saw it was Lex Fridman. Closed.

deleted 6y ago
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DSingularity 6y ago

Why are people so negative? I get that it is possible for people to dislike his style or find his voice triggering. What I don’t get is what those people get out of pointing this out. Especially when others have already done this.

jcims 6y ago
I'd love to hear an actual study on this kind of phenomenon. For some reason he really triggers people on two primary fronts, his 'monotone' manner of speaking, and the simplistic and philosophical questions he adds to every conversation. There's a third but relatively small cohort that seem to be experiencing some kind of transitive distrust from his previous encounters with Joe Rogan and/or Elon Musk. I get not liking his or any other podcast. I don't get the need to belittle the dude or enter into some weird conspirational thinking about his motivations.
harryVic 6y ago
People who have nothing going on their lives like to be so angry on the internet. Lex is a 34 year old who teaches at MIT and gets to live a popular life earning money interviewing celebrities and scientists. I love listening to him and his style of working.
chubot 6y ago
Also I recommend just giving it a chance. To be honest, I disilked his first podcasts. I turned them off even though they had guests I really liked (Guido van Rossum, etc.) But now I watch his podcast all the time, and I've gotten a lot out of it. I agree with others in that he doesn't try to make himself the focus of the conversation, and that's a good quality in an interviewer. He makes his subjects comfortable enough to talk freely, to say things I haven't heard elsewhere over 1-2 hours, and that is an incredible and valuable skill.
zadaSahib 6y ago
Yes, it is quite sad. I didn't know a voice could be so triggering to people until I went on this thread. It's really not something I place much importance on, so I was surprised to see this. Lex, if you're reading this by any chance, please keep up the great work. There are a lot more people who love what you're doing than those who don't! :)

jlokier 6y ago

(@dang) Other discussion about the same episode here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24823764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24823764

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
That discussion only has complaints about the interviewing style. This discussion has a few comments about the substance. Not many, but more than none.
- jlokier 6y ago
  That's a little unfair, some of the comments there are thoughtful praise, just like this discussion.
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    Some thoughtful praise of the interview style, yes. But zero discussion of the actual content of the interview.
    - jlokier 6y ago
      Good point, I missed that in your first comment because it juxtaposed a point about it being all complaints with a point about substance vs style.

justicezyx 6y ago

The podcast was targeted at casual audiences, who generally are normal engineers in the software trade, or even ones outside of software. The content is fairly shallow. I am looking for content that actually can describe practitioner problems, not just superficially on general conceptual problems. One that delivered by John Carmark would be one such example. But John probably is on another level than Chris here, and is very rare.

higerordermap 6y ago
I don't get why this is downvoted.

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bekantan 6y ago

I love his podcast. Episode with Joscha Bach is the best one so far - Joscha is an excellent fit for type of questions Lex tends to ask

WanderPanda 6y ago
Thanks, never heard that name but I will definitely listen to the episode!
- agambrahma 6y ago
  In case it helps: https://lexfridman.com/joscha-bach/ https://lexfridman.com/joscha-bach/
- jcims 6y ago
  You need to warm up the brain for that one. I'm sure it's different if you spend a lot of time thinking about the topics they discussed, but I don't, and it felt like my brain was getting tazed. The pace at which he crystalizes vague notions into the framework of his worldview is impressive. I don't think I ever clicked 'skip backwards 15 seconds' more in a podcast that already had my full attention.

WanderPanda 6y ago

I would never have guessed Lex would get so much hate here. No one forces you to listen to him and his guests. And it is probably not despite his interviewing style but because of it that so many excellent people talk to him. Can we please discuss the content? I have one hour to go and Julia has not been mentioned, though it seems to check many of the boxes they are talking about (high quality libraries that feel like they are part of the language, compiling natively to accelerators...). I think it is one big competitor (in the field of HPC / scientific computing) to „Swift world domination“

zapnuk 6y ago
Yes, I don't remember Julia being mentioned. Also, Elixir/Erlang isn't mentioned when they talked about actor based concurrency. Neither is Rust which has some simultaneity with swift. They also didn't really talk about problems with swift (adoption for example). Overall this talk is very surface level in my opinion, which is why I think some critique on Lex is valid. He had the opportunity to dive in deeper on some topics - but didn't really do so. It just could have been better.
- WanderPanda 6y ago
  I personally found almost all points they were talking about interesting. Sure, I also often get the feeling that they should dive deeper on a particular topic, or that a certain point raises more questions than it answers but then again we are clocking in at almost 3h already and I am not sure how far the term „long form content“ can (or should) be stretched
  - justicezyx 6y ago
    They are both superficial and interesting. My critic has always been that Lex is superficial, which is understandable, because he is targeting casual audiences. Like some other comments suggest, he is squandering the opportunity in a certain degree. All his question can be answered by someone who is not Chris Lattner, and the content would not be too different from what's we see right now. I personally place high regards on Chris Lattner's technical prowess in the compiler and machine-program interfacing space. That's something that he can deliver content that no other I am aware of can do better. Yet, all I have been seeing is something that have been repeated everywhere else, and I am too tired of this blandness. On the contrary, take a look https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZHmQk67mSJgfCCTn7xBfew https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZHmQk67mSJgfCCTn7xBfew, the producer does not appeal to casual viewers. It's often a deep disect of technical papers inside out. That's what I am looking for.

twsted 6y ago

Chris is a very nice guy and a super smart engineer. Why all these comments about Lex and his interviewing style and almost nothing about the technological aspects, like MLIR, LLVM or RISC-V?

binarynate 6y ago

I'm surprised by the negativity on this thread, so I just want to mention that I think this is an awesome podcast, and I get a lot of value and entertainment out of it. For this episode in particular, I thought the conversation about RISC-V and Swift were both really interesting. For people that feel the need to continually troll Lex for his voice and interviewing style, you are free to create your own podcast if you think you can do a better job.

chrislattner 6y ago

Really sad to see how much of the commentary here is meta-commentary about Lex and not about the content. Several people asked, so here's the reason I chose to go on his show: it's because I love his work (frequent listener) and he's a great person. He asks good questions suitable to a wide audience and he's fun to talk to. If you don't like his show or style, then you don't have to listen to it. :-) -Chris

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kgarten 6y ago
Big fan of your work. Yet, some more commentary on the content of the podcast: You are talking about the "Future of Computing" and you are just discussing llvm, c, c++, java, python and swift? No Haskell, Erlang, Julia, Go ... A bit disappointing regarding the title of the podcast, don't you think so?
- chrislattner 6y ago
  It's impossible to cover "all the things" in one podcast. However, I'm happy to answer specific questions if you have a specific interest.
  - kgarten 6y ago
    True, true. Yet, I feel the podcast discusses more the current state, not the future in terms of programming/computing. When I listened, I was wondering what is a rather obscure language you like and enjoy and why. (I still like hacking OpenDylan from time to time. For me, Swift seems great for user interfaces and for some os applications (command line etc.). Especially Apple's SwiftUI seem to take the best of d3.js and other libraries. Swift seems perfect and very flexible for that. Machine Learning and Signal Processing will still be dominated by Python, just because of the libraries. I'm old school and program a lot of matlab ... Thought I would get more background on your influences and your programming culture.

ricklamers 6y ago

I just wanted to share my two cents about Lex as a podcast interviewer, given the flak he's getting from some people in this thread. I think he's fantastic. His calm style is really great for both the interviewee and the listener in my opinion. My knee jerk reaction to Lex was to dislike him, but if you allow yourself to dig a little deeper I think you'll find he's a hard working, intelligent and humble guy that's following his passion.