3 ms·

> Of all the places to point fingers at waste problems, this is a strange one. Google's refusal to provide Android updates past a meager few years certainly re

> Of all the places to point fingers at waste problems, this is a strange one. Google's refusal to provide Android updates past a meager few years certainly results in a much larger volume of electronic waste in the landfills every year.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago
That isn't Google, it's the phone and chip manufacturers. What really prevents the phones from being updated is that they publish neither open source drivers nor hardware documentation, and then ship blob drivers that only work with a specific kernel version. When that kernel version becomes outdated and the hardware maker doesn't make drivers for any newer one, it prevents newer versions of the OS from being installed on the older hardware. Granted Google could probably lean on them a little harder to stop doing that. Moreover, Apple does the same thing. They might give you longer than HTC, but they still stop issuing updates to perfectly operational devices, and don't publish the documentation necessary for anybody else to make an OS for them. Compare this to PCs where you can still install the latest Windows or Linux on some piece of hardware that originally shipped with a CRT monitor and whose manufacturer went out of business a decade ago.
- selsta 6y ago
  Apple is still providing security updates for the iPhone 5S, that’s an over 7 year old device.
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    Which is to imply they're not still providing security updates for the iPhone 4, which is 7 years newer than the first generation AMD64 machines you can still install the latest version of Windows or Linux on.
    - GeekyBear 6y ago
      Microsoft provides a version of Windows 10 that works on machines with 512 megabytes of RAM like the iPhone 4 has? Nope. Windows 10 and iOS both require two Gigs of RAM at a minimum, although Microsoft's minimum OS requirements have always been regarded as something of a joke in the industry.
      - Skunkleton 6y ago
        You are nitpicking. Traditional electronics have a much longer support window then even iPhones, which themselves do much better than their competition in this regard.
        GeekyBear 6y ago
        Traditional electronics haven't seen large leaps in hardware capabilities on a yearly basis for a very long time. Apple supports iPhones for as long as they have enough resources for the new version of the OS to continue running on them. Google does not. The fact that they only provide half as many years of support at best proves the point.
        AnthonyMouse 6y ago
        You keep saying "Google" but there is nothing about Android that can't run on the earliest Android devices given driver support in recent kernels, and Google doesn't control the drivers. Meanwhile Apple, like most Android phone makers, don't publish the information needed for third parties to make drivers for their hardware. Which is why you can't install the latest Android on an iPhone 4. And what is Google supposed to do about that? But Apple could do something about it.
      - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
        > Microsoft provides a version of Windows 10 that works on machines with 512 megabytes of RAM like the iPhone 4 has? Linux does. For that matter Android does. Also, machines from 2003 support 16GB of RAM: https://www.tyan.com/Motherboards_S2885_Thunder%20K8W https://www.tyan.com/Motherboards_S2885_Thunder%20K8W Whose fault is it that you can't upgrade the memory on the iPhone 4?
    - Razengan 6y ago
      Your bias is appalling. In all your comments on this page you have contorted every negative for Google into a positive but every positive for Apple into a negative.
      - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
        Have you considered the possibility that it's because Apple (like Huawei and Qualcomm) have a profit motive to make you to buy a new phone on regular basis even if you're satisfied with your existing one, and Google doesn't?
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    The last update for the iPhone 5S was iOS 12.4.8, released July 15, 2020. In the meantime, various vulnerabilities were found in e.g. Safari [1]. I don't believe all of that is backported into iOS 12.x. [1] https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=safari https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=safari
- GeekyBear 6y ago
  Google could have designed Android with a hardware abstraction layer to separate drivers from the OS. The fact that they are attempting to retrofit one now, just proves the point. The problem does indeed come down to Google and their choice to prioritize rapid market share growth and what the device makers and carriers wanted over what would provide a good end user experience. The original $399 iPhone SE just started its sixth year of OS and security updates. Android devices get half that support period if you are lucky.
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    > Google could have designed Android with a hardware abstraction layer to separate drivers from the OS. That is part of the kernel. You might as well blame Linus Torvalds. > The problem does indeed come down to Google and their choice to prioritize rapid market share growth and what the device makers and carriers wanted over what would provide a good end user experience. Google didn't have market power in phone operating systems when Android was just getting started. They had no power to dictate terms at the time because the device makers would have just used something else. > The original $399 iPhone SE just started its sixth year of OS and security updates. Android devices get half that support period if you are lucky. This is whataboutism. They're both doing it wrong, so your defense is that HTC is doing it wronger. But they're both still doing it wrong. And what are you going to say if Google does get a hardware abstraction layer, so that Android devices are supported indefinitely?
    - GeekyBear 6y ago
      So despite the fact that Google is attempting to retrofit a hardware abstraction layer into Android without breaking backwards compatability now, the comparatively much simpler job of adopting one from the start was just impossible? This is a very poor job of excuse making. The point stands. Google's poor decision making led to a much higher volume of electronic waste on a yearly basis than any imaginable level Airpods sales ever could.
      - AnthonyMouse 6y ago

AnthonyMouse 6y ago

That isn't Google, it's the phone and chip manufacturers. What really prevents the phones from being updated is that they publish neither open source drivers nor hardware documentation, and then ship blob drivers that only work with a specific kernel version. When that kernel version becomes outdated and the hardware maker doesn't make drivers for any newer one, it prevents newer versions of the OS from being installed on the older hardware. Granted Google could probably lean on them a little harder to stop doing that. Moreover, Apple does the same thing. They might give you longer than HTC, but they still stop issuing updates to perfectly operational devices, and don't publish the documentation necessary for anybody else to make an OS for them. Compare this to PCs where you can still install the latest Windows or Linux on some piece of hardware that originally shipped with a CRT monitor and whose manufacturer went out of business a decade ago.

selsta 6y ago
Apple is still providing security updates for the iPhone 5S, that’s an over 7 year old device.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  Which is to imply they're not still providing security updates for the iPhone 4, which is 7 years newer than the first generation AMD64 machines you can still install the latest version of Windows or Linux on.
  - GeekyBear 6y ago
    Microsoft provides a version of Windows 10 that works on machines with 512 megabytes of RAM like the iPhone 4 has? Nope. Windows 10 and iOS both require two Gigs of RAM at a minimum, although Microsoft's minimum OS requirements have always been regarded as something of a joke in the industry.
    - Skunkleton 6y ago
      You are nitpicking. Traditional electronics have a much longer support window then even iPhones, which themselves do much better than their competition in this regard.
      - GeekyBear 6y ago
        Traditional electronics haven't seen large leaps in hardware capabilities on a yearly basis for a very long time. Apple supports iPhones for as long as they have enough resources for the new version of the OS to continue running on them. Google does not. The fact that they only provide half as many years of support at best proves the point.
        AnthonyMouse 6y ago
        You keep saying "Google" but there is nothing about Android that can't run on the earliest Android devices given driver support in recent kernels, and Google doesn't control the drivers. Meanwhile Apple, like most Android phone makers, don't publish the information needed for third parties to make drivers for their hardware. Which is why you can't install the latest Android on an iPhone 4. And what is Google supposed to do about that? But Apple could do something about it.
    - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
      > Microsoft provides a version of Windows 10 that works on machines with 512 megabytes of RAM like the iPhone 4 has? Linux does. For that matter Android does. Also, machines from 2003 support 16GB of RAM: https://www.tyan.com/Motherboards_S2885_Thunder%20K8W https://www.tyan.com/Motherboards_S2885_Thunder%20K8W Whose fault is it that you can't upgrade the memory on the iPhone 4?
  - Razengan 6y ago
    Your bias is appalling. In all your comments on this page you have contorted every negative for Google into a positive but every positive for Apple into a negative.
    - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
      Have you considered the possibility that it's because Apple (like Huawei and Qualcomm) have a profit motive to make you to buy a new phone on regular basis even if you're satisfied with your existing one, and Google doesn't?
- Fnoord 6y ago
  The last update for the iPhone 5S was iOS 12.4.8, released July 15, 2020. In the meantime, various vulnerabilities were found in e.g. Safari [1]. I don't believe all of that is backported into iOS 12.x. [1] https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=safari https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=safari
GeekyBear 6y ago
Google could have designed Android with a hardware abstraction layer to separate drivers from the OS. The fact that they are attempting to retrofit one now, just proves the point. The problem does indeed come down to Google and their choice to prioritize rapid market share growth and what the device makers and carriers wanted over what would provide a good end user experience. The original $399 iPhone SE just started its sixth year of OS and security updates. Android devices get half that support period if you are lucky.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  > Google could have designed Android with a hardware abstraction layer to separate drivers from the OS. That is part of the kernel. You might as well blame Linus Torvalds. > The problem does indeed come down to Google and their choice to prioritize rapid market share growth and what the device makers and carriers wanted over what would provide a good end user experience. Google didn't have market power in phone operating systems when Android was just getting started. They had no power to dictate terms at the time because the device makers would have just used something else. > The original $399 iPhone SE just started its sixth year of OS and security updates. Android devices get half that support period if you are lucky. This is whataboutism. They're both doing it wrong, so your defense is that HTC is doing it wronger. But they're both still doing it wrong. And what are you going to say if Google does get a hardware abstraction layer, so that Android devices are supported indefinitely?
  - GeekyBear 6y ago
    So despite the fact that Google is attempting to retrofit a hardware abstraction layer into Android without breaking backwards compatability now, the comparatively much simpler job of adopting one from the start was just impossible? This is a very poor job of excuse making. The point stands. Google's poor decision making led to a much higher volume of electronic waste on a yearly basis than any imaginable level Airpods sales ever could.
    - AnthonyMouse 6y ago